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Low Light - Dragon LLO or MX?

M

Mohammed Almedfa

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We're shooting on a tower rooftop for an upcoming sci-fi shoot in Dubai, and I'm trying to choose the best camera choice to get the best detail out of the cityscape below. We own MX sensor Scarlets which I feel very confident with, but I'm trying to decide whether renting an LLO Epic Dragon makes sense to achieve a better exposure on the cityscape below. We're able to shoot every focal length needed at a sharp T2 if required but after reading differing opinions on many threads - I was wondering if anyone has an opinion on how they'd quantify the sensitivity difference between MX & Dragon LLO. Assuming a similar level of noise as 'acceptable', can LLO go a stop brighter, more, less etc.?

Thanks for any insights possible. :)
 
Dragon LL for sure. Shoot in 6k.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys and the reminder on black shading it, of course shooting Dragon in 6K is the appealing choice ;) Would anyone have a thought on how much higher one's ISO could be pushed on LLO than MX? Assuming one was comfortable with ISO800 on MX, would 2000 on LLO be relatively equally acceptable? This shoot will only be released online, so Neat Video and the like will definitely be a solid option.
 
I would say, if at operating temperature and properly black shaded, ISO 1600 is quite pleasing still. The good thing about Dragon is that even if it has noise, at least with the LLO OLPF, its "good looking" noise.
 
With the LLO olpf, Dragon is much cleaner than MX and has far better dynamic range and color. So for me it's a no brainer to go Dragon LLO olpf. Good luck with the shoot.
 
Dragon for sure. I'd say regarding noise, MX at 800 ISO looks like Dragon at 1600 ISO with the low light olpf.
 
Jason L said:
Dragon for sure. I'd say regarding noise, MX at 800 ISO looks like Dragon at 1600 ISO with the low light olpf.
Click to expand...

Exactly. With that said, expose as well as possible at a lower ISO and you can push it much further in post. As an example, I shot this at 800ISO on LLO olpf and can push it to 5000ISO with minimal to no noise. The main point is if you feed the sensor enough light, ISO is irrelevant. Don't shoot at 800ISO or 1600ISO for that matter and underexpose and hope to push in post and have a low noise image. Also, the lower your compression ratio the better the noise is and the less visible. The higher the compression ratio the more apparent and ugly the noise gets.

Open in a new tab to view UHD images.
(Excuse the JPEG compression)
Straight out of camera at 800ISO:
LifehouseOutofCamera.jpg


800ISO redlogfilm straight out of camera, no adjustments:
LifehouseOOC800ISORedlogfilm.jpg


Pushed to 5000ISO, Redlogfilm:
LifehouseOOC6400ISORedlogfilm.jpg


5000ISO with curve applied to Redlogfilm:
5000ISOcurve.jpg


So my main point is if you shoot 800ISO, get as full of a histogram as possible, expose to the right (in low light at higher ISO's), and you will get clean results at any ISO with Dragon should you wish to push it in post.
 
Thanks for the detailed images Matt! They're looking great. I've been consistently impressed with how far even my MX shots have been able to be pushed over my intended exposure, and Dragon LLO is looking like a significant improvement in that regard, which is awesome. The reason I'm more concerned about noise than usual, is that there will be a fair amount of roto-work involved and so would like to give VFX the cleanest image to work with possible, so Dragon LLO is looking like the perfect choice :)
 
A couple months ago Bob Gundu showed me a few really clean low-light clips he shot with the LLO, and he was like, "But wait; there's more!" and then started cranking the ISO up to 6400. It looked similar to (if not cleaner than) ISO1600 on MX whilst still maintaining it's composure from a colour perspective ('twas impressive). I'd take purple orbs around in-frame light-sources for two additional stops of low-light cleanliness any day (ISO1600 to 6400).
 
Yes blacks are much cleaner on dragon by 1 x / 1.3 x stops vs MX. If you're roto-ing, watch the streaky flares you get on the LLO OLPF which you'll get from the street lights (the closer to them you are, the worse it gets), especially if you're moving the cam. Maybe do a quick test?

Craig Lees
ED UK
3dstories.co.uk
 
Thanks Mike & Craig!

Extremely useful information on both fronts. We should be about 300 meters above any actual street lights :) but will watch for streaking on any in-shot light-sources on the rooftop (as there will be some LED strips as part of the production design) closely just as you've suggested, and try to arrange a solid test shoot with the LLO prior :)
 
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