Louis C.K.'s new show "Louie"

[C.H.Haskell]

Paul K! Miss you mate...hope all is well! Lets have a beer when I get back to the city. Nice work on season 3, keep it up you old salt.

 

[Filip Orlandic]

There is a nice article about this show in July's Digital Video Magazine.

 

[Paul Koestner]

Yes, on Louie's Epic. And you're going to wince, but Louie gave a serious thought to buying an Alexa. I'm pretty sure he made the right move getting an Epic instead. It certainly felt like the right camera for what we as a small crew were looking for.

 

[Paul Koestner]

Hey Clay! When are we getting together so I can repay you in Pain Killers all those Red Lessons you gave me?

 

[Paul Koestner]

Hey Nick! Yeah we' don't use up a lot of real estate. Louie likes to keep things lean and, er, friendly.

 

[Paul Koestner]

I just finished watching the 2nd season and all I can say is "wow". I was hooked after the first season but the 2nd season blows the 1st out of the water. So happy to hear season 3 is underway, I wish you guys the best of luck on this season. I had a friend day play on one of the episodes as a steadicam op/ac (think it was the episode where Louie sees the bum get hit by a car). He had nothing but good things to say about the crew and cast.

I heard somewhere that Louie even operates from time to time, that true? Would love to hear how involved he is with Paul and how you guys go about getting the "look" for Louie.

Louie does operate, Brandon, whenever he's not in a scene, which is somewhat rare. It's actually fun to hand the camera over to him, and frankly it makes perfect sense when he's directing a scene "from the hip", as it were. Why sit there and try to tell me what he's thinking, or whisper in my ear when I'm zigging and he'd rather I zag? Put it on his shoulder and he'll get what he wants without the middleman. We're hearing a lot about those people in his life these days, aren't we?

 

[Hudson Tanimoto]

I have to say the look of season 3 is noticeably different from season 1 and 2. Great tonal range, and a punchier image. Almost makes some of S1 look DSLR-like in comparison. Skin tones are better, night shots look a lot more natural. The scenes in the Comedy Cellar have heaps of shadow detail. I am constantly amazed how well this show is shot, especially reading in this thread about what you guys have to deal with (shooting T1.3 with no rehearsals, for example)

 

[Samuel Gursky]

can't believe that I didn't find this thread sooner! this is currently one of my favorite shows on television. Me and my girlfriend were actually chatting about how this season has been very different thus far though, it seems much less raw (specifically as far as lighting is concerned). Was this a conscious effort that was made to differentiate this season from the rest, or just what the setups have presented you with thus far?

 

[Brandon J.F.]

I have to say the look of season 3 is noticeably different from season 1 and 2. Great tonal range, and a punchier image. Almost makes some of S1 look DSLR-like in comparison. Skin tones are better, night shots look a lot more natural. The scenes in the Comedy Cellar have heaps of shadow detail. I am constantly amazed how well this show is shot, especially reading in this thread about what you guys have to deal with (shooting T1.3 with no rehearsals, for example)

I agree. I noticed immediately how much better the show looks this season.

 

[Paul Koestner]

can't believe that I didn't find this thread sooner! this is currently one of my favorite shows on television. Me and my girlfriend were actually chatting about how this season has been very different thus far though, it seems much less raw (specifically as far as lighting is concerned). Was this a conscious effort that was made to differentiate this season from the rest, or just what the setups have presented you with thus far?

Gosh, I really don't know the answer to to this one. On the one hand, I guess I'm happy the show seems to be improving visually. On the other, the English major in me interprets this message as "last season looked a lot worse."

If anything, this season I've followed more diligently than ever Louie's dictum to keep it simple, and do as little lighting augmentation as possible. Historically, other than when working on documentaries and reality-type shows, I'd never just enter a location, turn on the camera and hit the record button. But given the dynamic range of the new generation of cameras, and our use of high speed primes from quality venders, I will start the day on a set by putting the camera up and turning it on. Naturally, given the scenes requirements, we're looking for existing light that will be kind to us.

What is different this year? We're using Louie's Epic, as opposed to a Red One. We're also mixing it up a bit between Louie's Ultra Prime set and his Panchros. Mostly Ultras, but then I think last year was the same deal. And regarding lens choice, Louie and the camera crew (who all have keen eyes) have come to barely tolerate my opinion on glass. Unless you show me a split-screen comparison, I couldn't tell if the picture I'm looking at was generated through a Master Prime, Ultra Prime, S4, Panchro, Optimo... And I'll bet I could make some money on it if I were of the wagering type. You've heard enough from me by now. What's my zodiacal sign? I'll give you eight guesses.

We're working with the same colorist at the same post house since Season 1. I will say that our post production workflow education has been a slow and painful one. I half wonder if technical changes have rendered a tidier picture. Or maybe Louie's learning curve with the software is resulting in better color rendering.

Or maybe we're in nicer locations this season. Or our evolving use of movement feels more picturesque. Or maybe the stories are getting more interesting, so we project more production value upon the content. I tend to be suspicious of critiques, even complimentary ones, that I can't explain without reliable empirical data. This is the same sensor as last year. Less compression, maybe? The post that follows this one mentions tonal range. Maybe because we're doing more existing light stuff we're seeing more contrast this year. Certainly I feel more comfortable with the technology now, knowing that there will be detail and not noise in the shadows. And Louie will hardly countenance a bounce card anymore.

Any of this make sense? Or, as my dad used to say, am I just pissing in the wind?

 

[Hudson Tanimoto]

I am certainly noticing in S3 that there are some nicer locations and some more picturesque shots (I really loved the chase shots of Louie riding his Triumph, looked fantastic) Not to say S1 didn't look great, but I wanted to say it looks like you guys are still trying to tweak things here and there to improve the overall look. Obviously there's a little more money going into the show too which always helps

I think the most successful thing is that it still feels like a narrative (even reading so much behind-the-scenes information in this thread I still feel engaged in the narrative of the show, even after last week with the post-credits BTS of the beach scene being shot)

 

[Paul Koestner]

I am certainly noticing in S3 that there are some nicer locations and some more picturesque shots (I really loved the chase shots of Louie riding his Triumph, looked fantastic) Not to say S1 didn't look great, but I wanted to say it looks like you guys are still trying to tweak things here and there to improve the overall look. Obviously there's a little more money going into the show too which always helps

I think the most successful thing is that it still feels like a narrative (even reading so much behind-the-scenes information in this thread I still feel engaged in the narrative of the show, even after last week with the post-credits BTS of the beach scene being shot)

So you spotted me floundering there off South Beach, eh? That was Sandy Morse's little "gift" to me. What I saw was an old man tiring in the surf from chasing Louie around, and finally handing off the camera to our AC Alex Martin, who is a strapping young buck. I've since taken up jogging again in preparation for Season 4.

There's no question Louie is challenging us with more demanding shots, and the popularity of his show has perhaps opened some doors for us that help the look. We are, aside from myself, largely a young crew, and we're learning (I include myself in that assessment). I'm getting better with my jib/dolly moves as I get more practice. It also helps that we switched to a remote focus set-up, which got Alex's hand off the rig. That rig is quite sensitive to outside pressure, and certain kinds of moves suffer from having two sets of arms competing for its attention.

Now here is where I'd love some help from you folks. Louie was struggling in the edit room this year with shots that didn't keep up with the action focus-wise. There's certainly an art to it, and it's a particular challenge given the shallow DOP we often work at.

But I was kind of stumped. Louie said it was worse this year, and we looked at the possibility of lag in the remote focus gear, which was a recent addition. But we checked it on set and the response was immediate. What I've come to believe is the culprit, something I noticed in the beginning with the new Epic and wrote off as inconsequential, is something I'd call image lag, but which I've also seen referred to as"latency" in the signal feeding our monitors. It dawned on me that if an AC buries his head in a monitor (even a cabled one) and pulls focus in response to what he sees going on there, he is in fact responding to events taking place in recent history.

This may seem innocuous enough if we state the lag to be on the order of a tenth of a second, but if one compounds it with "human brain lag" and consider that DOP on a face sitting six feet away from an MX sensor with a 100mm set at T2 is next to nothing, one can see the recipe for trouble.

So tell me, do any of you buy into this? There's no question that when I whip pan, the image is playing catch-up with the lens. What is the story here with the present Epic build and "latency"?

And on a different note, do I hear correctly that there are some smaller, considerably less expensive wireless viewing/focus systems coming off the assembly line somewhere? This stuff we're using is beefy and expensive to rent.

Fair Winds,
Paul

 

[Phillip Stefani]

No one can offer Paul any help on his query???

 

[Eric Haase]

Yeah the sdi out on the epic has lag. Makes operating a remote head difficult and pulling focus off a monitor difficult in some situations. There are some threads about this. Your monitor make be partly to blame as well, depending how it processes the signal it could introduce lag. It's definitely not awesome.

 

[Nick Gardner]

There is certainly a lag. In those situations I usually try to help out my AC by buying him a stop. Be it asa, adding a light, opening the shutter, whatever, I try to give the guy a fighting chance. Pulling focus from a monitor is always reacting instead of anticipating, which is problematic.

I haven't done a comparison test, but it seems to me that the EVF and the touch lcd are less laggy than the hdsdi output.

Nick

 

[Ryan De Franco]

+1 to what Nick said. I have spent the last year working off a TVLogic whereas I spent the two years prior working with red displays--on red one MX Epic prototypes, and Epic-M--and there is no doubt a difference between the SDI and the red monitor out.

This is one of those "oh shit" problems that I doubt very much anything can be done about. Inside the level 5 room at Red, the engineers know about this, and they've pushed it as far as they can without making the camera a lot more expensive.

 

[A. Clint Litton]

Seconded...I don't recall such a lag on the Red One, but I was almost always viewing on the Red LCD. The SDI lag on Epic has been a bit of a bummer...not the end of the world, but it has made certain things harder, like remote focusing as Paul has described. Adding a camwave into the mix may add further delays, which even in the milliseconds can be detrimental when working within such small margins of focal depth.

AFAIK, there haven't been any improvements that I've seen as the result of firmware upgrades (sorry, Paul!), but at least they eek out improvements in other ways. That said, as beneficial as a remote focus setup can be, this does highlight the importance of being by the camera and anticipating an actor's movements.

A second LCD/EVF port (without having to go to the Pro IO) would be amazing...as much as I like the 5" touch, I really miss the 7". I don't think Paul's back misses the old R1+Masters...

 

[Paul Koestner]

Sorry it's taken me this long to get back to you guys to thank you for the input. And yeah, "definitely not awesome" has a ring to it. I'd love to take a look at one or more of those threads, if only to bathe myself in the company of misery. If someone could direct me to them I'd be most appreciative. My own searches have turned up blank.

I think, as has been mentioned, the best solution for those shots where DOF is near zero is for the AC to keep an eye on the real action, and resist the temptation to bury his head in a hood. We've had the conversation with Louie and he's inclined to throw out all the new gadgetry. I'd like to forestall that eventuality, as I believe there is a time and place for everything.

Some of you may have heard the news that Season 4 has been pushed off so Louie can recharge his batteries. While it will doubtlessly disappoint his fans, not to mention crew, he deserves the time, and I wish him well.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Any AC worth his salt will be using tape, wether real or cine, to get accurate marks. They will confirm focus on a hq monitor but will usually eyeball the subject to camera distance and check the focus distance against the marks on the lens. It is an art and they earn every penny of their money.

 

[A. Clint Litton]

Any AC worth his salt will be using tape, wether real or cine, to get accurate marks. They will confirm focus on a hq monitor but will usually eyeball the subject to camera distance and check the focus distance against the marks on the lens. It is an art and they earn every penny of their money.

Matt,

While I think there's a good underlying methodology in what you're saying, I have to disagree with your statement, at least in how it applies to the show at the heart of this thread.

This is a show that is shot without rehearsals, without blocking, without marks, where the actors will often wander to different places from take to take, and where the camera may not be in the same place from take to take (it's fairly mobile, often set up on a jib that Paul operates at the fluid head, so there's some drift involved)...so accurate marks don't really exist. Getting rough marks whenever possible is always part of the game plan, but due to the way our boss likes to work (which often includes an extreme aversion to letting us do our jobs as we might prefer in most professional circumstances), there haven't been many situations I've observed during the making of this show that matches up well with what you're saying. Ironically, some of our most disastrous focus faux-pas have involved trying to maintain focus using a cine-tape.

That said, you mention the art of it, and I think you're absolutely right. It's crucial to keep your eye on the action, and it takes an ability to judge camera to talent distances, as well as some instinct to anticipate what's going to happen, rather than react to what you're seeing on a monitor. I guess I just wanted to point out that not all jobs grant you the ability to do things the way we'd like to...all you can do is your best given the circumstances.

This conversation does bring up a few fundamental issues, as mentioned above. I've seen a lot of AC's pulling focus off monitors more and more, rather than resorting to taking down marks. This, combined with the SDI lag, is a major issue when pulling focus at apertures towards the open end on a >S35mm sensor. I really hope Red can do something to lessen this lag...