Looks going out to monitor...But not affecting R3D files. Anyone know?

[James Hogarth]

Hi all I have a quick question regarding looks on an epic.

Is it possible to create a look in cinieX and put it on the camera so it appears on the monitor without affecting the R3D file (in other words it stays flat or 'raw')

So if opened in Nucoda or similar the look only travels with it in a transcode not raw?

Thanks in advance

 

[Todd T]

Camera Looks only change how the camera displays output on attached displays, they do not affect the underlying R3D in a permanent fashion. You should be able to alter things in REDCine-X and export R3D trims if there is no way to changes settings in Nucoda

 

[Burke Doeren]

James, it may depend on what firmware build you're running, but in my experience, any look applied in camera is attached to the .R3D clip as the "metadata" look. Of course, if you just want to monitor on camera with your look, but create transcodes with standard RedLogFilm, RedGamma3, etc. settings, just open up your clips in REDCINE-X PRO and apply any look setting you want from the browser, including "default."

Keep in mind though, in every build that I've tested since 4.0.18, the look is applied to the footage as the "metadata" look. I actually like this because it gives me confidence that my intended look is the first thing clients will see if I have to hand off the footage right after a shoot and don't have time to take it through REDCINE-X PRO.

 

[James Hogarth]

Thanks guys some good advice there.

Burke my issue is that we are creating a look in cineX and applying it to the camera then when we offload the footage the look is on the R3D file when we open it.

This is fine for CineX cos we can toggle on and off with the meta/default settings but the DOP wants the R3D file to be raw.

I do totally see your point in it being a good thing as it's the first thing post see but I'm just going on what my DOP wants.

Thanks for your help guys this forum never lets me down

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I am pretty sure the only way to get raw R3Ds as the default is to shoot without a look. As others have said, it is easy enough to remove the look in RCX but it does add a step.

 

[D Fuller]

Thanks guys some good advice there.

Burke my issue is that we are creating a look in cineX and applying it to the camera then when we offload the footage the look is on the R3D file when we open it.

This is fine for CineX cos we can toggle on and off with the meta/default settings but the DOP wants the R3D file to be raw.

I do totally see your point in it being a good thing as it's the first thing post see but I'm just going on what my DOP wants.

Thanks for your help guys this forum never lets me down

James, there is always a look. And an r3d file is always raw. It does not depend on the version of firmware, it's the design of the r3d file. You can't view the r3d without the viewing system using some look to translate the raw file from a weird monochrome matrix that doesn't really look like a picture into something you can view. But the r3d file is still raw, and that look can be changed up until you transcode to some other file format. Then the look is baked in.

If what your DP really wants is to end up with an r3d with a look that is more like Arri log files, but to monitor in the viewing Look you develop in RCX for example, there are two ways to do this:

The first is to record using the look, then take the files int RCX and apply a look that has everything zeroed and uses RedLogFilm for gamma. You don't have to transcode. Just bring in the clips, apply the look, make sure "automatically save RMD" is checked in preferences, save and exit. It's free, and takes very little time.

The second way is to set the camera to record using the zeroed/RLF look and put an outboard LUT box in the monitor path. This is more complicated, and requires a LUT box of some sort in the monitor chain. And what you see at the camera will be the zeroed/RLF look. This is the look that will travel with the r3ds until someone changes it. But in both of these cases, the r3d file is raw. Only the metadata in the RMD is changing.

Is that helpful? Or have I misunderstood the question?

 

[James Hogarth]

James, there is always a look. And an r3d file is always raw. It does not depend on the version of firmware, it's the design of the r3d file. You can't view the r3d without the viewing system using some look to translate the raw file from a weird monochrome matrix that doesn't really look like a picture into something you can view. But the r3d file is still raw, and that look can be changed up until you transcode to some other file format. Then the look is baked in.

If what your DP really wants is to end up with an r3d with a look that is more like Arri log files, but to monitor in the viewing Look you develop in RCX for example, there are two ways to do this:

The first is to record using the look, then take the files int RCX and apply a look that has everything zeroed and uses RedLogFilm for gamma. You don't have to transcode. Just bring in the clips, apply the look, make sure "automatically save RMD" is checked in preferences, save and exit. It's free, and takes very little time.

The second way is to set the camera to record using the zeroed/RLF look and put an outboard LUT box in the monitor path. This is more complicated, and requires a LUT box of some sort in the monitor chain. And what you see at the camera will be the zeroed/RLF look. This is the look that will travel with the r3ds until someone changes it. But in both of these cases, the r3d file is raw. Only the metadata in the RMD is changing.

Is that helpful? Or have I misunderstood the question?

Hi David

I think that could be helpful regarding the first option. I do want to transcode with the look so if I reset curves ext to zero and save RMD will the RMD be the 'flat' look and then if I reset the clips and transcode with the look on then that means edit will get DNxHD with the look and an RMD without yes?

Or am I being an idiot?

 

[Daniel Stilling]

the DOP wants the R3D file to be raw.

The R3D files are and will always be raw. Nothing you do in your looks affects the file. it just "tags" certain settings to the shot that can later be changed, so you can create the craziest look and still have the underlying raw unchanged. That's the beauty of the system.

 

[James Hogarth]

The R3D files are and will always be raw. Nothing you do in your looks affects the file. it just "tags" certain settings to the shot that can later be changed, so you can create the craziest look and still have the underlying raw unchanged. That's the beauty of the system.

thanks dan but it's opening them in nucoda thats the problem. the look is there and can't be turned off

 

[Burke Doeren]

James, what seems to be happening is Nucoda is reading the .RMD sidecar file that holds the metadata for your .R3D. Premiere Pro CC does the same, and so do many programs that handle .R3D footage natively. What you have to do is this:

Load your look into the EPIC camera so you see basically what you're going to get on set. Then BEFORE you load your media into Nucoda, follow D Fuller's instructions on how to "reset" the look on your clips back to REDLogFilm through REDCINE-X PRO. Finally, after you've reset all clips, load them into Nucoda, and you should see the clips with the default REDLogFilm look applied.

Sometimes with certain programs the order matters most. If this doesn't work, that means that Nucoda is ignoring the .RMD sidecar and only reading the .R3D metadata from the camera, and there is most likely a way to reset all this through Nucoda itself. I have a good feeling though that it should work if done in the proper order. Let us know if this helps.

 

[James Hogarth]

James, what seems to be happening is Nucoda is reading the .RMD sidecar file that holds the metadata for your .R3D. Premiere Pro CC does the same, and so do many programs that handle .R3D footage natively. What you have to do is this:

Load your look into the EPIC camera so you see basically what you're going to get on set. Then BEFORE you load your media into Nucoda, follow D Fuller's instructions on how to "reset" the look on your clips back to REDLogFilm through REDCINE-X PRO. Finally, after you've reset all clips, load them into Nucoda, and you should see the clips with the default REDLogFilm look applied.

Sometimes with certain programs the order matters most. If this doesn't work, that means that Nucoda is ignoring the .RMD sidecar and only reading the .R3D metadata from the camera, and there is most likely a way to reset all this through Nucoda itself. I have a good feeling though that it should work if done in the proper order. Let us know if this helps.

Thanks so much for your help everyone. We shoot next week so I'll see what DOP wants to do. Once again the people on here have been a great help

 

[D Fuller]

thanks dan but it's opening them in nucoda thats the problem. the look is there and can't be turned off

According to Nucoda's release notes HERE Nucoda, since before 2012, has Red tools available in "Properties". Those should allow the adjustment of raw settings.

 

[James Hogarth]

According to Nucoda's release notes HERE Nucoda, since before 2012, has Red tools available in "Properties". Those should allow the adjustment of raw settings.

Thanks for that David I'll forward it on to my DOP

Really great of you doing that