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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Looking to Buy an HMI.

Luis Ortiz

Luis Ortiz

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I'm looking to purchase an affordable 1200W 5600K light with ballast, of course, one with no noise or flicker. An online search has resulted in these models:

"Cool Lights" CL-MP1200 1200w HMI Par,

"LTM" 2500 Watt Fresnel HMI light with Ballast,

"Pro" 1.2KW fresnel HMI Light

Has anyone used these models? If so, can you comment on their Pros and Cons. If you can compare them to Arri, Mole Richardson and K5600 Joker, it'll be great?

Thanks.
 
I don't think the cool lights are actually HMI's.

The LTM is going to draw a lot of amps, you will most likely need a dryer plug or electric range plug to use.

Is the "pro" one of the Chinese arri knock offs? They aren't bad, but you get what you pay for.

Your best bet is to buy a used ARRI, or Desisti, or something like that. Since it's used it will pretty much still be worth what you payed for it. Arri and Desisti both make excelent, bullet proof lights.

Try Pyramid films and see what they have. Call them, as their inventory changes all the time.

http://www.pyramid-films.com/desisti_2_5k_fresnel_hmi_system.htm

Nick
 
arrinick said:
I don't think the cool lights are actually HMI's.

The LTM is going to draw a lot of amps, you will most likely need a dryer plug or electric range plug to use.

Is the "pro" one of the Chinese arri knock offs? They aren't bad, but you get what you pay for.

Your best bet is to buy a used ARRI, or Desisti, or something like that. Since it's used it will pretty much still be worth what you payed for it. Arri and Desisti both make excelent, bullet proof lights.

Try Pyramid films and see what they have. Call them, as their inventory changes all the time.

http://www.pyramid-films.com/desisti_2_5k_fresnel_hmi_system.htm

Nick
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback.
 
Yup, you don't get much more knock offy than that. There used to be a product line called "Cool Lights" that were low wattage CID discharge lamps or some such sillyness. I thought he might be referring to those.

I would go used Arri over chinese hmi's any day of the week.

Nick
 
arrinick said:
Yup, you don't get much more knock offy than that. There used to be a product line called "Cool Lights" that were low wattage CID discharge lamps or some such sillyness. I thought he might be referring to those.

I would go used Arri over chinese hmi's any day of the week.

Nick
Click to expand...

I believe the Chinese knockoffs you are referring to are the "Pro" lights in ebay (http://stores.ebay.com/steven-studio-china). Cool lights are a different company based out of Reno, Nevada (http://www.coollights.biz/clmp1200-cool-lights-1200w-p-78.html).

As long as the light source is durable, produces 5600k at the amount of kw that's desired, with no noise or flicker, at a good price, I'd be interested.

Thanks again for your help.
 
dmacleod said:
This would be my pick;

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/192705-REG/K5600_K0800JB_Joker_Bug_800_Watt_HMI.html

I did a doc in the spring and could only bring one light with me! This was it.

Dual voltage. Really high output. Plugs in to a wall.

Chimera attachments to make it soft.

It is worth every penny.
Click to expand...

All I hear are good things about The Joker 800W HMI PAR. I'm trying to get an idea how powerful it is. How far can you place it from your subject in order to achieve 4 stops? (i.e. in a wide open dark space without diffusing the light)
 
The cool lights are HMIs. They are designed by Richard, made in china and the quality control is iffy but manageable if you are handy. I spoke to Richard about it and he said they are changing factories. I did have a problem with one of my ballasts and Richard shipped me another one the same day I told him about it. The jokers are excellent lights as are the arris and the desistis, but the cool lights par is around $3200k, ballast included. I've been shooting a fair amount with Richard's 575s and 150s and they use the same bulbs and put out the same light as the name brands for about half the price. The ballast for the 575/1200 has a 24/high speed switch that seems to keep most flicker at bay. Good luck finding a good deal on a used HMI, they are almost all heavy magnetic ballasts which would limit your shooting rate. If there is a good deal on a used HMI they tend to get snapped up very quickly. Even the bron color still photography one on ebay got bought by someone here on this forum. I do know that Richard's lights play nice with the RED, our tests have been very promising, but as for durability and resale, I'll let you know in 9 months.

1200 is a good size since you can plug it right into your normal household socket with no issues. Also those little baby honda generators, (I think the 2000) will power one with room to spare. A couple of those and you wouldn't even need to tow a genny, you could just throw em in your back seat. Anything above 1200k is probably going to require a dryer drop.

I'd stay away from the chinese ones sold from china. There will be no customer support and no one to give you a refund when it catches on fire. Call Richard and talk to him and you'll get an idea of who you're dealing with. They don't have a lot of inventory on hand, so if you need something soon, I'd call now.

UPDATE, interestingly enough, pyramid has a 575 desisti for sale for $1250 with a lightmaker electronic ballast. Lightmaker did go out of business though so replacement parts will be tricky.
 
A producer I am working with on a video clip this week end has contacted Outsight. They are developing a new range of LED lights that they claim can yield 3k comparable to a 2.5k PAR HMI. These don't need a crystal sync generator if out in the field and can be powered of your regular 10AMP domestic circuit when in doors.
Apparently they are lighter and easier to carry around and come with their own in built dimmer. They are ready to be put on the market and the company wants to get them out and in the industry as soon as possible.

Am hoping to use them this week end on the video clip (shooting on Red) will post a report about their performance.
 
I've got 2 of Richard's 1200 Fresnel HMI's (cold restrike) and they are pretty good considering what I paid for them. There is head noise that really isn't picked up by the mic, but you have to be careful about it. Also, they are not something that I would put in a rental company, but if you've got your own company and your the main person using them (or the people are under their supervision.) His lights really are only going to get better.

Of course, if you've got the money, Arri is about the best way to go!

Matthew
 
coldpizza said:
A producer I am working with on a video clip this week end has contacted Outsight. They are developing a new range of LED lights that they claim can yield 3k comparable to a 2.5k PAR HMI. These don't need a crystal sync generator if out in the field and can be powered of your regular 10AMP domestic circuit when in doors.
Apparently they are lighter and easier to carry around and come with their own in built dimmer. They are ready to be put on the market and the company wants to get them out and in the industry as soon as possible.

Am hoping to use them this week end on the video clip (shooting on Red) will post a report about their performance.
Click to expand...

I look forward to your posting. See if your producer allows you to post some stills.
 
Macville--

1200w Cool Light fresnels? Did you get test units from Richard? The only 1200w units offered on the site so far are pars.

I'm about to close on the 575w "pro" fresnel, that is, the one with the 575/1200w ballast that is identical to the one sold with the 1200w par. Any opinions on the quality of the ballast in terms of build, performance, features?

maxwax--

Was the ballast that went down on you with your Cool Light 575w fresnel the previous ballast version offered or the new 575/1200w "pro" version?

I agree that Richard is easy to deal with, fair-minded, and take comfort in being able to talk with him and that distribution is U.S.-based, but I'm still a bit unsure whether the intro pricing is worth the risk on his higher-wattage units, given they are 1st generation products.

Have you noticed a head noise problem with the 575w fresnel? I have been using the 150w CDM fresnel and haven't noticed any objectionable sound from that unit.
 
Macville's got the only two cold start 1200's we've produced with a lighter weight 1200w only ballast. They use the G22 Osram type cold start HMI bulb. The light output is pretty much the same as with the G38 Osram hot start HMI bulb. People contact me all the time with special requests and if we can do it we will. There are no 1200w fresnel models left at the moment--we were cleaned out pretty quickly on that.

From that same batch, we also have a few 1200w fresnels out there using the electronic 575/1200 hot start ballast--the same used on the 575w hot start fresnel.

The ballast that went down with maxwax was a 150w CDM ballast not a 575/1200.

Our 1200w HMI par uses the same 575/1200 ballast as the fresnels.

To answer some earlier misinformation given by "Arrinick", we have both CDM (cold start) and HMI (hot start) products. If it uses an Osram HMI bulb--it is an HMI fixture. If it uses a regular metal halide bulb its a CDM or cold start type of fixture. The 150w CDM has been a very popular product and works well in the place of a 650w tungsten fresnel but with native daylight capability so no gelling needed.
 
coollights said:
Macville's got the only two cold start 1200's we've produced with a lighter weight 1200w only ballast. They use the G22 Osram type cold start HMI bulb. The light output is pretty much the same as with the G38 Osram hot start HMI bulb. People contact me all the time with special requests and if we can do it we will.

We also have a few 1200w fresnels out there using the electronic 575/1200 hot start ballast. The ballast that went down with maxwax was a 150w CDM ballast not a 575/1200. Our 1200w HMI par uses the same ballast.

To answer some earlier misinformation given by "Arrinick", we have both CDM (cold start) and HMI (hot start) products. If it uses an Osram HMI bulb--it is an HMI fixture.
Click to expand...

Glad to see you chime in. Re: your hmi par 1200w, is it 5600k or 6000k and are there any uv issues with them. I want to buy a 5600k light, preferably 1200w, and not have to be worried about noise and flicker. Tell us about your product.
 
BillG said:
Macville--

maxwax--

Was the ballast that went down on you with your Cool Light 575w fresnel the previous ballast version offered or the new 575/1200w "pro" version?

I agree that Richard is easy to deal with, fair-minded, and take comfort in being able to talk with him and that distribution is U.S.-based, but I'm still a bit unsure whether the intro pricing is worth the risk on his higher-wattage units, given they are 1st generation products.

Have you noticed a head noise problem with the 575w fresnel? I have been using the 150w CDM fresnel and haven't noticed any objectionable sound from that unit.
Click to expand...

I haven't noticed objectionable head noise on the 575s, but I've been shooting music videos and they've been 20 feet up in the air... I should have clarified about the 150 ballast crashing because the 575/1200 does seem built pretty sturdy. I have the current edition. No problems with that ballast at all. At some high shutter speeds, sometimes (rarely) I get some flicker. (like at 800/sec) I can't seem to pin down when and where but so far hasn't been an issue.

You know, you better close on that 575 fast, I know there's only one left and I might need it for a video coming up....

Richard has been great for service. I'd say he goes over and above what is necessary.
 
Luis Ortiz said:
Glad to see you chime in. Re: your hmi par 1200w, is it 5600k or 6000k and are there any uv issues with them. I want to buy a 5600k light, preferably 1200w, and not have to be worried about noise and flicker. Tell us about your product.
Click to expand...

My pleasure. The par itself (or any of the fresnels for that matter) is neither 5600K nor 6000K but that depends upon the bulb. The Arri standard HMI (that is followed by Philips and G.E. when they produce an HMI-compatible bulb) is 6000K. You won't notice a difference between 5600K and 6000K in most cases because of Mired Shift and the fact that color temperature differences are mostly noticeable in the lower temperatures like the 3000K to 4000K range for instance. I do know that Eiko has a 5600K bulb though and it should work although we've never specifically tested that bulb--I imagine if they closely followed the HMI standard then there should be no issue.

As for head noise, there is a bit so its not completely silent. We've talked about this before and it mostly has to do with resonances setup in the bulb by driving it at a high enough frequency to not see flicker. The ballast itself is quiet with a whisper fan.

The UV protection is built-in to the lens. Hope this helps.
 
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