List your Top 5 Favorite Movie Cameras

[Mitch Gross]

And my least fav?

Phantom - no latitude and requires tons of light. Last gig I did on this mother we hit f256 on the meter. Subtlety goes out the window when the gaffer is likely to catch fire adjusting a stand.

Sorry, but that's a load of crap. You can't complain about a camera just because you were using it to perform a task that no other camera can. If you shot it at 24p I think you would find that it is quite a sensitive camera -- actually a bit more sensitive than the RED One. The Red is rated around 320 ISO while the Phantom HD is around 550 ISO. Window the RED to 2k and crank it up to 120fps an shoot a Phantom at the same frame rate and shutter angle and you will find that they both need more light for high speed in the same relative difference as at sync speed. There are other high speed cameras that are much less sensitive to light than the Phantom, and with a lesser Dynamic Range as well. Lighting for those is a real bitch. The Phantom shoots like film.

 

[Shawn Booth]

1. RED ONE
2. Scarlet when it comes out. boy is RED heavy.
3. ARRI 535
4. Canon XL-1... best viewfinder + shoulderheld camera ever... i really liked this camera.
5. Canon XH-A1... i dont like the CA... and where they put that darned lcd.

How can you say RED is heavy and then list the 535?

 

[runge_100]

post 69

I agree with you, the thread says Cinematography not Video, so I'm wondering what is Sony DV, Panasonic DVX, RED etc. etc. doing in this thread

 

[Davide B.]

post 69

I agree with you, the thread says Cinematography not Video, so I'm wondering what is Sony DV, Panasonic DVX, RED etc. etc. doing in this thread

Cinematography is an art, it's platform agnostic. Both Iraq in Fragments and November were shot on the DVX100 and won Best Cinematography awards at Sundance.

 

[chuckt]

Cinematography is an art, it's platform agnostic. Both Iraq in Fragments and November were shot on the DVX100 and won Best Cinematography awards at Sundance.

I agree with you.

 

[Andrew McCarrick]

Dalsa Origin II/Evolution
Phantom 65/HD
F23
HPX3000
Varicam

 

[James T Mather]

Sorry, but that's a load of crap. You can't complain about a camera just because you were using it to perform a task that no other camera can.


If you shot it at 24p I think you would find that it is quite a sensitive camera -- actually a bit more sensitive than the RED One. The Red is rated around 320 ISO while the Phantom HD is around 550 ISO. Window the RED to 2k and crank it up to 120fps an shoot a Phantom at the same frame rate and shutter angle and you will find that they both need more light for high speed in the same relative difference as at sync speed. There are other high speed cameras that are much less sensitive to light than the Phantom, and with a lesser Dynamic Range as well. Lighting for those is a real bitch. The Phantom shoots like film.

First off you sound like you work for Phantom, Mitch. - Am I not allowed to state an opinion on the system? why is it a "load of crap" as you rudely put it? But since you brought it up, the simple fact is that the Phantom doesn't actually shoot properly at 25 fps (flicker and occasional aliasing artifacts) it requires a minimum speed of at least 200 to eliminate - In mentioning the Phantom I am not solely talking about exposure/fps/film speed/shutter maths (which is Remedial film 101 but thanks for the refresher) but beyond that the camera has a number of issues - heavily reduced latitude - about five or so effective stops I estimate (at a push), additionally flicker issues on lights powered below 2k and also utilizing HMI par bulbs (the camera picks up the shift of gas in the bulb as flicker). Further at lower speeds the system exhibits occasional pixel colour shift issues (pink fringing or ringing on edges and highlights). The fact is, as I understand it, that the Phantom was designed with largely military applications in mind rather than pure aesthetics and this is reflected in the difficulties it presents the DP - "The Phantom shoots like film"? - Unless you're referring to cross processed reversal I find this to be simply incorrect. That said - the system, despite these difficulties, produces some extraordinary images due to it's high speed properties and I believe they have a new Hi Def system with enhanced latitude which might alleviate the actress' fawn coloured raincoat trying to bleach out on an overcast day.

And lest I sound like I'm singling out Phantom for harsh treatment - Tornado has similar headaches.

So if I state my opinion on a public forum is it okay by you? Thx.

 

[Tom Lowe]

Probably the old Vista Vision cameras.

 

[Mitch Gross]

First off you sound like you work for Phantom, Mitch. - Am I not allowed to state an opinion on the system? why is it a "load of crap" as you rudely put it? But since you brought it up, the simple fact is that the Phantom doesn't actually shoot properly at 25 fps (flicker and occasional aliasing artifacts) it requires a minimum speed of at least 200 to eliminate - In mentioning the Phantom I am not solely talking about exposure/fps/film speed/shutter maths (which is Remedial film 101 but thanks for the refresher) but beyond that the camera has a number of issues - heavily reduced latitude - about five or so effective stops I estimate (at a push), additionally flicker issues on lights powered below 2k and also utilizing HMI par bulbs (the camera picks up the shift of gas in the bulb as flicker). Further at lower speeds the system exhibits occasional pixel colour shift issues (pink fringing or ringing on edges and highlights). The fact is, as I understand it, that the Phantom was designed with largely military applications in mind rather than pure aesthetics and this is reflected in the difficulties it presents the DP - "The Phantom shoots like film"? - Unless you're referring to cross processed reversal I find this to be simply incorrect. That said - the system, despite these difficulties, produces some extraordinary images due to it's high speed properties and I believe they have a new Hi Def system with enhanced latitude which might alleviate the actress' fawn coloured raincoat trying to bleach out on an overcast day.

And lest I sound like I'm singling out Phantom for harsh treatment - Tornado has similar headaches.

So if I state my opinion on a public forum is it okay by you? Thx.

James,

Of course you may state your opinion. But you made statements as if they were facts, not opinions, and if anyone has a factual issue with a statement they should be able to counter it. I apologize if I came off rudely, but you basically stated that the Phantom cameras need a ton of light to get an exposure, which is simply not true. As for the other issues, let me go through them:

No good at 25fps -- I don't know why you are having trouble, but our cameras have shot 24fps & 30fps here in the US (I understand that you are London-based) with no issues. In fact they work very well at these rates.

Flicker in bulbs at high speed -- This is a function of shooting high speed on any camera. Film will hide it a bit, but as you said in mentioning Tornado, this is not a Phantom issue. And it can be less of an issue than you think: I just finished a shoot this weekend rolling 500 & 1000fps with an effective shutter speed of 1/4000th of a second and we mixed in HMIs, Xenons and nine-lights with no perceived flicker.

Limited dynamic range and color fringing -- Which model Phantom are you using here? And how are you de-bayering? The Phantom HD has 11+ measurable stops of dynamic range and at least eight effective stops. I assume our colorists are adding proper 2.2 gamma after conversion. The standard de-bayering software from Vision Research is functional but not nearly as nice as using something like the new Gluetools Phantom QuickTime wrapper. I'm sure you're getting lovely images but not nearly as rich as the camera is capable of delivering. There was also an enhanced revision B sensor offered last October that improved the image considerably, but I don't believe that all of the cameras out there have been sent back to VRI for upgrading.

I work for Abel Cine Tech. We are the North American distributor for the Production Industry for Phantom and other Vision Research products. So while I do not work for them it is part of my job to make sure that correct information gets out to the industry.

Again I apologize if my tone was rude. Your post as I read it appeared to be an incorrect statement of facts.

 

[Emanuel A.]

1) RED ONE
2) SI
3) Cinealta F900 series
4) Scarlet 2K
5) HV20

Outside, there has been a sort of cult film cameras like my mom's Super8, K3, Aaton A-Minima or yet several Arris and Aatons before entering into the digital age, most part from the film school times or yet earlier than that.

 

[James T Mather]

Mitch - you're alright

yeah the problem is more that aesthetically/lazily I just don't think any DP relishes having to project a stop of f256. (we were running at 1/10,000 sec on the last gig - Ironically I just got a call today to do another Phantom shoot in a couple of weeks.(looks like the 18k setburners will come out again).

Plus I forgot to mention the hand wound spring bolex - it's a keeper.

 

[Emanuel A.]

1) RED ONE
2) SI
3) Cinealta F900 series
4) Scarlet 2K
5) HV20

I'd bet on this one in a year or so:

1) RED ONE
2) SI
3) CineAlta F900 series
4) Scarlet 2K beta
5) HV40

or yet:

1) RED ONE
2) Scarlet 2K
3) SI
4) CineAlta F900 series

51% on the latter one

 

[Mike Krumlauf]

Bringing a Thread back from the dead it seems. wanted to join in on this

1.) RED ONE MX (My current weapon of choice until i can afford an epic)
2.) Sony PD150 (my first professional camera, the thing was a tank!)
3.) Canon XL2 (Learned lots from this one!)
4.) Sony FS100 (the low light is crazy good)
5.) Panasonic GH2 HACKED (the only HDSLR I have really enjoyed using)

 

[BRANDON JAMESON]

1) SONY F65
2) ARRI ALEXA STUDIO
3) RED EPIC MX
4) VIPER FILMSTREAM
4) PHANTOM 65

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Panavision Millennium
Panavision Millennium XL
MovieCam SL
Arriflex 535B
Arriflex III

 

[Nick Gardner]

In no particular order -

Epic
Arri BL Evolution
Arri SR
Panavision Millenium XL
Mitchel/Fries

 

[shashbugu]

1. Arri Alexa Plus
2. ReD Epic-X
3. Canon Scoopic
4. CP 16
5. Arri 435