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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

List of Redusers Waiting for a Refund from Viewfactor

Zach Gray said:
I don't get it. Isn't running off with 400k of other peoples money called stealing? How is the pre-order different? I'm not trying to make people more angry than they already are, I just don't see how this isn't criminal in some way. Is there a technicality involved in the pre-order somehow?

Where did the money go? The story would be interesting. Was it bad management, technical issues, supply chain, patent licensing, more expensive parts, money spent to make other product lines, family issues, health issues? What's weird about this is I remember seeing a working version at NAB years ago. Seemed ready to deliver at that point. I know things usually end up being more complicated than they first appear, but $400k and 5 years...

From what I'm reading, the sting comes from the lack of communication. It seems like regular updates of progress would go a long way to demonstrate that they cared about the investment you guys made in his company and the faith you put in him. He needs to honor that by working hard to deliver the product in a timely manner. I've seen several companies over the years rise on great products, then fall on poor customer service. At least red seems to focus on both.

Perhaps bankruptcy would make it harder for them to screw people over in the future. Maybe that's a bit harsh, but don't decisions come with consequences?
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Plain old fraud is what it is. Where did the money go indeed...
 
In my opinion, if they cannot pay, it should be time to seek a lawyer or report them to their State's Better Business Bureau. I'd hate be a troublemaker but if my money was stuck in a non refundable state and they couldn't get me a product, it's time they get investigated and either forced to become bankrupt and be out of business or stop any new sales. If anything, this is a pyramid scheme where they hope fresh money might bail them out of old debt.
 
Frank Glencairn said:
What is it, that brings a guy to give away substantial money for a unknown, untried, product, that isn't even out on the shelves yet, let alone to testing it, before actually buying it?
That whole pre-ordering thing is really beyond me.
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Do you own any RED products Frank? ;)
I fact do you own any ARRI, Sony, Panasonic, Canon, Zeiss, Leica, Schneider, Cooke products?
 
Frank Glencairn said:
What is it, that brings a guy to give away substantial money for a unknown, untried, product, that isn't even out on the shelves yet, let alone to testing it, before actually buying it?
That whole pre-ordering thing is really beyond me.
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That's how i bought my first red 1 in 2008. Plucked down $5k deposit for a scam of a camera. But one also has to look at WHO you are investing in....Seemed a good roll of the dice with Jim & RED. but small companies & startups--well, you just have to make the best informed decision at that moment.
 
Sadly, I too am one of the people that's feeling pretty betrayed at this point...
I posted a note a few days ago on the VF forum...(BELOW) and still met by silence.
I think that's the most frustrating part! WTF! I've pretty much learned my lesson on going 'all in' to get in on a pre-order of aome virtual product.
If it's too good to be true.... must be...kinda thing.
If some of you who aren't familiar with the entire saga and back history on this thing..... there's a very lengthy thread about the whole damn thing in accessories.
What are our options Curt?

So I'm at Matthews the other day with this friend of mine looking at some of their latest gear. Come to find out, They're even getting into the motor/fiz market.
TB released at NAB in April. I tell my friend I still haven't seen mine yet from Viewfactor that I fully paid for back in 2008. He was so shocked, he didn't know what to say...
and neither did I. I'm embarrassed, appalled and beyond frustrated that this has gone as long as it has. We've all been extremely patient and any inquiries that are mentioned on this forum are met with complete silence. From the consumer end, I can only view this as extremely disrespectful... Every time I get an email in my inbox saying "new reply to Fiz questions". my heart starts racing, I think maybe this will be the one where Kurt finally says the batch is ready for delivery. After a few pulsing moments I'm again let down as I read another futile query about status from another member.
Kurt, your last update back in Sept was "We need to run the last batch of boards (hardware) and we need to finalize the state machines for the user interface and lens mapping. The motor drivers and wireless protocols are completed"...... what does this mean in the grand scheme of things.

Sorry if I come across as a downer but WE are your oldest clients... people that'v been there from the very beginning and believed so strongly in the product, they plopped down the entire cost of the kit just to get in line. This seems like vaporware in its truest form... Is it?

Seriously man...where are we with this thing? ...not only that... let's get it done and in our hands...

thanks,
one of your original customers,
 
I have purchased some bits and pieces from VF in the past, and somehow I did not know about this. I cannot in good conscience purchase another dollar worth of gear from these guys. This is unacceptable, ridiculous and really unbelievable...
 
Daniel Stilling said:
I have purchased some bits and pieces from VF in the past, and somehow I did not know about this. I cannot in good conscience purchase another dollar worth of gear from these guys. This is unacceptable, ridiculous and really unbelievable...
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Same here, i taught this was resolved a few years ago.. they should take responsibility!
 
For those of us waiting for the wireless follow focus system to be finished by Viewfactor, the best thing for us all would be for anyone who likes and or needs Viewfactor's current products to buy them as normal.

This would help keep Viewfactor in business so they can finish the follow focus and make good on everyone's follow focus orders.

I have other Viewfactor gear - APU battery plate, Epic bottom Plate and Cargohold SSD cases. All these are great pieces of gear and very well made and I would recommend these products to anyone.

At this length of time, I am now happy to wait, hoping they come through with a great product.

By encouraging anyone to boycott Viewfactor is not going to help anyone get a follow focus. I urge people to access their products and if they are right for you go ahead and buy them, it could just help the rest of us. :)
 
Viewfactor have really screwed a lot of customers and have not had the decency to make it right. What's worse is they continue releasing newer and updated products without addressing the wireless focus unit and all the customers who paid in advance. I will not be giving them my business and I'd urge others to do the same. Tim suggest continuing to purchase products from them, but what good has that done? There's still no update and still no physical item.

I think legal action is due. It's been almost 6 years and still no product. This is not acceptable.

Well, for $5,000 you can get this unit. Should be available at NAB.
 
Kinda a slam dunk for a Class Action lawsuit. Someone needs to take the lead and get it rolling. From what has been said here there is no excuse for this and it seems to border fraud. Quit bitching and lawyer up
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
Do you own any RED products Frank? ;)
I fact do you own any ARRI, Sony, Panasonic, Canon, Zeiss, Leica, Schneider, Cooke products?
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I bought a FS100 for a special project, after testing it for a few days.
Usually I don't buy cameras, since they evolve too fast these days, to get a decent ROI in my business model.
I look at the budget and what the shot calls for, and than I rent the best suitable camera for the particular project.
I own a lot of glass - though I bought most of it used. So no pre-ordering and guinea-piging for me.
 
Josh Beadle said:
Kinda a slam dunk for a Class Action lawsuit. Someone needs to take the lead and get it rolling. From what has been said here there is no excuse for this and it seems to border fraud. Quit bitching and lawyer up
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I agree 110% in principle, Josh. Unfortunately I've been down this road so many times before, I know what the outcome will be. I can show you file drawers full of judgements saying so and so must pay me $$$, but it's all money that I'll never see, no matter which court or judge says so.

That said, it's probably going to end that way. Another entry to my collection of I-O-U's that will never be paid and a couple wanna-be aks makers who don't own a piece of equipment, nor the roof over their heads simply declaring bankruptcy and re-forming a new company somewhere else to do the same thing to someone else. It's going to cost me more $$$ to get the wrecking ball swinging their direction than what they owe me. I usually am the guy who will spend $100K to collect $10K just because it's a matter of principles, but maybe I'm just sick of that sort of thing. Anyway, I'll see what my attorney has to say -- I have a meeting for other matters later this week and I guess we can hash over this one again...
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I agree 110% in principle, Josh. Unfortunately I've been down this road so many times before, I know what the outcome will be. I can show you file drawers full of judgements saying so and so must pay me $$$, but it's all money that I'll never see, no matter which court or judge says so.

That said, it's probably going to end that way. Another entry to my collection of I-O-U's that will never be paid and a couple wanna-be aks makers who don't own a piece of equipment, nor the roof over their heads simply declaring bankruptcy and re-forming a new company somewhere else to do the same thing to someone else. It's going to cost me more $$$ to get the wrecking ball swinging their direction than what they owe me. I usually am the guy who will spend $100K to collect $10K just because it's a matter of principles, but maybe I'm just sick of that sort of thing. Anyway, I'll see what my attorney has to say -- I have a meeting for other matters later this week and I guess we can hash over this one again...
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do a "RED User Group Buy" for a lawyer to sue their ass ;-)
 
I bought a cage from them and they were quiet for almost a month- I ended up calling them and demanding to know the status and they said "oh it's being anodized today". And then it shows up in the mail 2 days later.

I understand that it's a small shop and they are very busy but damn. The cage is top notch though, I love it. I hope they dont get shut down
 
I feel you Josh, but as a practical matter I'm with Jeff.

I highly doubt enough assets could be rounded up and liquidated under any type of legal pressure to pay the lawyers, let alone recover our losses.

At least if he's still in business, there's a small chance we'll get the FF someday. No, I'm not holding my breath ;-)

Cheers - #19
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I agree 110% in principle, Josh. Unfortunately I've been down this road so many times before, I know what the outcome will be. I can show you file drawers full of judgements saying so and so must pay me $$$, but it's all money that I'll never see, no matter which court or judge says so.

That said, it's probably going to end that way. Another entry to my collection of I-O-U's that will never be paid and a couple wanna-be aks makers who don't own a piece of equipment, nor the roof over their heads simply declaring bankruptcy and re-forming a new company somewhere else to do the same thing to someone else. It's going to cost me more $$$ to get the wrecking ball swinging their direction than what they owe me. I usually am the guy who will spend $100K to collect $10K just because it's a matter of principles, but maybe I'm just sick of that sort of thing. Anyway, I'll see what my attorney has to say -- I have a meeting for other matters later this week and I guess we can hash over this one again...
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I don't personally have a backorder with Viewfactor, but I wanted to ask if you've considered "piercing the corporate veil" with them? It essentially says that regardless of an LLC in place, you can lift that liability protection and force the owner(s) to give up their personal assets.

It really seems like ViewFactor Studios would be subjected to this, especially because the entire business (owners + employees) are all family members.

A simple Google search will bring up the registration information for ViewFactor Studios, but to see if they're even still registered with the California Secretary of State, you'll need to fill out a form to request a "Certificate of Good Standing".

Really hope this helps all of you out - doesn't seem fair that a company should continue doing business and simultaneously ignore six-year backorders.
 
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