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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

List of Redusers Waiting for a Refund from Viewfactor

Michael Panfeld

Michael Panfeld

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Its been nearly 5 years since I paid $1,914 for a Inclino/Imperio wireless follow focus from Viewfactor. Nearly a year since I requested a refund because they have failed to deliver. Nearly 5 months since Viewfactor posted a status update on finally bringing this from the design phase to production. Looking to put together a list of other Reduser's in a similar situation.

Thanks
 
As a moderator, I'm supposed to keep tabs on topics like this, even nip them in the bud if they seem problematic. I'm not sure where this is going to lead, but I may as well let it go and see what happens. Of course, I'm biased and have a horse in this race as well.

Way back at NAB '08 or somewhere about then, five years ago, I forked over a tidy sum of money to ViewFactor. It was for an Impero wireless motor controller with two of their Inclino motors. I gave them an additional chunk of money for a reservation on their Mirrus Motion Control Head (Reservation #11) and a third Inclino motor. I have asked for a refund after a long time of waiting and still trying to believe. Never anything extended from ViewFactor on this matter. Save for about a year ago or something like that, they made a concession offering those of us in the Impero/Inclino pool of victims to acquire product in lieu of monies owed back to us. Oh, fine and great, but they don't make anything I want or need. I wouldn't mind the EPIC top plate, but I already had a solution there at the time the offer was made.

So yeah, add me to the list. As much as I want to believe Curt is a good guy, there continues to be a never-ending saga of broken promises surrounding these old products that have yet to be delivered. At this point the only thing I want is my money back.
 
I was happy to receive an email update from Curt this morning about the status of the wireless FF I ordered. Looks like it was only in response to this thread popping up. Add me to the list!
 
Jason Comparetto said:
Wow, you guys are the most patient people I know.
Click to expand...

Meaning what? It's not like we're just content to sit here. The other option is class action if we could get enough people onboard to do something. That topic has actually run across a large group of us in one form or another before, especially a couple years ago. So at this point it's still much the same thing as before. We either band together and sick a good lawyer or two on ViewFactor. They would default, declare bankruptcy and we'd have nothing to show for it other than a bunch of legal fees and long lost money. Or we can continue to remind ViewFactor on a semi-regular basis that they've screwed over a large number of people and still owe a lot of money and/ or long-promised equipment. Hopefully something may come of that.
 
Honestly, I had forgotten lol. That's scary hahaha. We got some of our order refunded, but that was on a large order. Ordered 3 or 4 and got refunded for 1 or 2. I can't remember anymore. Luckily my business partner has a memory like an elephant when it comes to money.

No matter what we still have a few on order. So count us in as well
 
I'm so confused by this. Is it this company? http://www.viewfactor.net/
Seems like they are still in business and still taking peoples money. They even have updates on their forum for the Inclino and Impero. But I'm curious, They have a physical address, and they are obviously in business, has no one gone down there and simply just demanded their money back? If a company was keeping several thousand dollars of mine, and they were obviously still running a business, you could be sure that a $300 plane ticket would not stand in the way of making something right, if even just for principle. Why on earth are you still hoping that this company will deliver a functioning product? I know not all of you are, but seriously? this is not how you do business in this world. I'm sorry for all of you who have had their money stolen by this company. It's sad really. I'd feel bad if I had borrowed 10 dollars from a friend and hadn't paid it back in 5 years.
 
I'm really shocked by that. Having purchased a fair few things from them in the past and encouraged others to as well I feel quite nauseous about continuing to deal with them. They need to make a statement about what they plan to do to rectify the situation. I'm presuming if no refund is available the money has all been spent in the day to day running of the company or R&D of these products. They need to put in place a loan or some financial instrument that starts a process of repayment. No point hiding away from it. Nobody is going to want to see them go down because no one will get anything back? Makes you feel very wary of advancing any money to any company in the future unless it can be held in some sort of client account that can't be just swallowed up within the company?
 
Call me an idiot if you like (my wife has gotten me used to it ;-) but what I'm still hoping for is a really great wireless FF unit - compact, quiet, nice feel to the controller, precise, etc.

Am I frustrated I haven't had some version of Curt's original "vision" in my kit the last 4 years? Of course.

Does it matter whether his intentions were good? That's a personal choice.

I've been burned by cynical d-bags plenty of times over the years, so perhaps that fact that Curt is at least trying takes the sting out.

BTW he also offset some of the money I put down in April of 2008 with some of the FMJ hardware Brook designed for the Epic - which, FWIW, has performed well.

Cheers - #19
 
Still waiting here. Any email I've sent them over the past 18 months have all gone unanswered. Only 3 such emails, but maybe I should just hound them on a daily basis.

Curt / VF makes good stuff. But he really needs to do right by his customers and just issue the refunds, even if he has to take out a loan to do it at this point. I can't in good conscience give VF another dime of my money, nor recommend them to anyone else until they make good on what so many of us have already paid them.
 
As near as I can tell, based on estimates of the known orders (I have a list), Viewfactor potentially owes as much as perhaps a 1/2 million dollars on the Impero/Inclino products. Some of that was refunded and some took a refund in the form of a trade for their bits and pieces of cage components.

I did go visit their physical location two years ago and met with both brothers and their mother; toured their shop, and discussed the issue with them. I asked them flat out for a refund and they said no. All of their machinery is leased and their offices are rented. Other than some small amount of raw material inventory and intellectual property, they do not have much in the way of assets. So, paying out that much money is beyond their means and, if sued, there is not much to latch on to. Moreover, as someone has pointed out, everybody and their mother is coming out with cheap FIZ products. So what was a revolutionary price point 6 years ago, is now facing a lot of competition and, its late entry, if that ever comes, will limit the market share. In short, there is no incentive to bring this to market, other than to clear their conscience and assuage the bad rep this debacle has generated for them.

This is Viewfactors last statement on the matter. It was posted on their Forum on Sept 23, 2013:

"We need to run the last batch of boards (hardware) and we need to finalize the state machines for the user interface and lens mapping. The motor drivers and wireless protocols are completed."

Radio silence since then.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Still waiting here. Any email I've sent them over the past 18 months have all gone unanswered. Only 3 such emails, but maybe I should just hound them on a daily basis.

Curt / VF makes good stuff. But he really needs to do right by his customers and just issue the refunds, even if he has to take out a loan to do it at this point. I can't in good conscience give VF another dime of my money, nor recommend them to anyone else until they make good on what so many of us have already paid them.
Click to expand...
Said to say ...+1
 
I don't get it. Isn't running off with 400k of other peoples money called stealing? How is the pre-order different? I'm not trying to make people more angry than they already are, I just don't see how this isn't criminal in some way. Is there a technicality involved in the pre-order somehow?

Where did the money go? The story would be interesting. Was it bad management, technical issues, supply chain, patent licensing, more expensive parts, money spent to make other product lines, family issues, health issues? What's weird about this is I remember seeing a working version at NAB years ago. Seemed ready to deliver at that point. I know things usually end up being more complicated than they first appear, but $400k and 5 years...

From what I'm reading, the sting comes from the lack of communication. It seems like regular updates of progress would go a long way to demonstrate that they cared about the investment you guys made in his company and the faith you put in him. He needs to honor that by working hard to deliver the product in a timely manner. I've seen several companies over the years rise on great products, then fall on poor customer service. At least red seems to focus on both.

Perhaps bankruptcy would make it harder for them to screw people over in the future. Maybe that's a bit harsh, but don't decisions come with consequences?
 
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