Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Lighting with Candles Question

M

Matt Hartle

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
74
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Montana
Hey Guys,


Wanted to see if anyone had some thoughts...


We're getting ready to shoot a project using mostly flame sources; candles, oil lamps, etc. I’m gonna fill with blue and green china balls.


If you look at the attached still, you can see reflection in the lens from the flame on the candle. Is there any type of filter or some way to kill the glare/ reflection of the candle?


There isn’t a matte box on the camera with this still but I doubt it would make a difference as the candle flame is directly in front of the lens.


Aesthetically, it’s making the viewer very aware this is being photographed through a piece of glass, if that makes any sense. It’s totally distracting. I want nice, clean flames, no flare!


thx in advance for any thoughts!


-m
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2016-08-23 at 5.38.04 PM.jpg
    Screen Shot 2016-08-23 at 5.38.04 PM.jpg
    9.6 KB · Views: 0
Could you use lenses that have a different coating to get rid of the lens flare? You could also use a zoom lens to help get rid of the flare. Or do it in post lol. I would say the best way to get rid of flare is change the composition or angle of the shot.
 
Lens flare is the result of internal reflections between elements and thus is unique to each lens's construction, so your best bet is to try a wide variety of lenses to see which works best. Adding more glass to the image path in the form of filters will only introduce more flare. Typically, older lenses with less sophisticated coatings and more glass elements (like zoom lenses) will produce greater amounts of flare and veiling glare, but it will be more diffuse and monochromatic. More modern expensive glass like Zeiss Master Primes will have better controlled flare and thus retain more image contrast, but the flare that you do see will often have more defined edges and reflect the colors of the lens coatings. Personally, I find the latter to be more distracting in a period film setting.

Realistically, I'm not sure you will be able to find a lens that produces no flare at all from such a bright point source in the frame (assuming that you are exposing the flame very brightly in order to have it do the main work of lighting the scene). I think it will be more about finding the lens with the least distracting flare characteristics.
 
It is a bit distracting. What you might want to do is find a lens which spreads out the flare a bit more. Maybe you need vintage lenses. This shot from Barry Lyndon looks very nice, even with the flare from the candles:

https://film-grab.com/2010/07/08/barry-lyndon/#jp-carousel-1596

Edit: There's no reason why a diffusion filter couldn't help. I don't mean something as strong as Schneider Black Frost, but something more subtle like a Classic Soft or Black Magic or whatever.
 
Your lens choice is everything in this. You want lenses with low reflection. Vintage glass probably isn't your best bet since most vintage glass doesn't have anti reflective characteristics and will most likely have a heavy bloom. The lenses that were used to shoot Barry Lyndon were T0.7 and were developed through Nasa for Kubrick. Probably can't touch those. I would get some master primes. Diffusion filters aren't going to stop your reflection and will only make your flame bloom more.

QUOTE=Matt Hartle;1656813]Hey Guys,


Wanted to see if anyone had some thoughts...


We're getting ready to shoot a project using mostly flame sources; candles, oil lamps, etc. I’m gonna fill with blue and green china balls.


If you look at the attached still, you can see reflection in the lens from the flame on the candle. Is there any type of filter or some way to kill the glare/ reflection of the candle?


There isn’t a matte box on the camera with this still but I doubt it would make a difference as the candle flame is directly in front of the lens.


Aesthetically, it’s making the viewer very aware this is being photographed through a piece of glass, if that makes any sense. It’s totally distracting. I want nice, clean flames, no flare!


thx in advance for any thoughts!


-m[/QUOTE]
 
Personally, I'd look at older vintage lenses (not zooms) and add very soft diffusion in the matte box and also haze into the set itself. This will add some volume that'll help (and also give some depth to the shots)... plus it always helps sell the candle-lit look.

As you're already planning to add some fill, you should be able to get some contrast in there... and some separation, but a lot depends on the content/context of the shots (ie - the majority of the Lyndon shots are either quite personal (around a table or in conversation) or larger staged/controlled shots (the card game etc).

I can't see you getting rid of the reflections fully, but you can manage them and I'd look at bringing up the background (via a mixture of diffused lighting and haze etc) to reduce the extremes of the contrast ratio between the dark areas (that are now hazy) with the the brighter flame elements (no longer standing out against the dark/black background).
 
To start, agree with Andy's thought on adding some haze to the environment. Depending on the look you are going for, this provides you so much more working room and options.

You might consider getting a hold of a GAM Flicker Master and incorporating that into your china balls.
This will enable you to increase the fill level while maintaining an appropriate out of frame flicker fill.

Used that effect to add to a scene with people watching television on a beach - unit was adjustable on rate and frequency - was able to tweak it in to match the scene nicely...
Brought in a Chimera Pancake overhead with skirts for close ups. It was kind of sweet.
 
Andy White said:
Personally, I'd look at older vintage lenses (not zooms) and add very soft diffusion in the matte box and also haze into the set itself. This will add some volume that'll help (and also give some depth to the shots)... plus it always helps sell the candle-lit look.

As you're already planning to add some fill, you should be able to get some contrast in there... and some separation, but a lot depends on the content/context of the shots (ie - the majority of the Lyndon shots are either quite personal (around a table or in conversation) or larger staged/controlled shots (the card game etc).

I can't see you getting rid of the reflections fully, but you can manage them and I'd look at bringing up the background (via a mixture of diffused lighting and haze etc) to reduce the extremes of the contrast ratio between the dark areas (that are now hazy) with the the brighter flame elements (no longer standing out against the dark/black background).
Click to expand...


Excellent advise, really appreciate it. I've been working with more fill and it's making a big difference contrast wise. Definitely going to be lightly fogging the set as well. Also working on getting some older Leica lenses. I don't have much experience with them but I just love the look of Leica so it'll be a great addition I think.
 
Very cool gonna check this out. You know I think we're going to do a lot of the primary lighting with oil lamps, which still Fit the period were going for. You can adjust the wick on those and if you use outdoor kerosene you get some rad black smoke coming out which looks great.
 
If there are only a few shots with candles and they are within the frame I would also shoot with HDRx enabled. That way you will get the highlights back and could roll them off much smoother when grading. The reflections are due to the lens elements. Try different lenses and see if you can get rid of them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top