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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Light kit advice.

Ed Watkins

Ed Watkins

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Hey all, I'm just about to buy a new set of lights and was wondering about your opinions.

I'm looking for a 3 light tungsten set up for interview and general lighting.
I've a modest budget of about $1.5k and am looking to get the most versatile system for my money.

Ideally I want the system capable of throwing the most light, but also of being highly controllable and configurable (e.g 650w lights which I can switch bulbs to make a 300w if required)

Currently I've put together a custom kit consisting of:
2 x 650w Altman Fresnels (which accept 300w/500w/650w bulbs)
1 x 500w Lowel Omni (accepts 300w /500w bulbs)
Plus barndoors, bulbs, scrims, gels, light stands, Arri light weight hard case.
Which comes to about 1.5K

Any suggestions what might be a better set up?
 
Hmmm... I'm a broke guy (well, until I finish paying lawyers for my green card fees ;) who can't afford a RED but I could at least afford an HMI. We have all seen how much better digital tends to work with 5600K.

If I were you I'd buy a small Kinoflo and rent the rest? Seems much better for interviews since it gives you a nice soft source.

Or for $80 you could get a 200w 5600K household fluorescent light (equiv to 600W or so). Buy a stand etc and put that inside a Chinese lantern?
http://www.coollights.biz/cl20056-cool-lights-200w-5600k-high-softbox-bulb-p-83.html

Or find a guy in your town with a nice lighting kit and agree to trade him some days of RED use in exchange for use of his lighting kit?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Thanks for the input Bruce.

I'm not really looking to spend on an HMI kit (I rent when I really need lights), and I'm not a fan of Kinos (due to the lack of controll).

I'm just looking for a basic 3 light kit for some of the smaller personal projects I do from time to time.

Equally, I really don't want McGyver style lights, hence I thought a set of fairly descent tungsten lights (balanced to day light) would fit the bill. Not ideal, but practical.

Other thoughts?
 
In my opinion you are much better off with a used HMI (for reasons of price) or a big fluorescent fixture that will provide enough punch to work in locations with daylight windows in the shot.

The little tungsten fixtures won't cut it, nor will they provide the correct color balance.

With daylight fluorescent fixtures, such as a Mole Biax 8, you have the proper color and sufficient punch to light a subject with a window in the BG.

The Mole Biax is very cost effective, although I prefer larger Kino Flo fixtures, such as the Image 85 or similar. Unfortunately, the Kino Flos are much more costly.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
1000W Lowel DP light with Chimera softbox and eggcrate + dichroic daylight filter for shooting with the RED

a couple of Lowel 250W pro lights with barndoors and gelframes

don't buy Lowel stands they suck....Mafrottos are better

A Dedolight with lens for projecting gobos on BG walls

That's it.
 
Ed Watkins said:
Thanks for the input Bruce.

I'm not really looking to spend on an HMI kit (I rent when I really need lights), and I'm not a fan of Kinos (due to the lack of controll).

I'm just looking for a basic 3 light kit for some of the smaller personal projects I do from time to time.

Equally, I really don't want McGyver style lights, hence I thought a set of fairly descent tungsten lights (balanced to day light) would fit the bill. Not ideal, but practical.

Other thoughts?
Click to expand...

Okay, why not buy a used kit? Tungsten lights are very simple devices. A used tungsten kit should be reliable and cheap.

I know REDheads are addicted to buying new stuff that devalues quickly... but the problem is that the lighting kit you're talking about is crappy by even South African student standards.

If on top of this you really want to balance those tungstens to daylight as you state, they will not be very effective at all.

So maybe by buying used you could get a more powerful kit?

Agree with the Angus's Chimera suggestion BTW.

Also, I know used HMIs can be risky (far more complicated electonics, more expensive bulbs, etc), but if you look for the right deal, it can really work out.

My 1.2K Arri HMI Fresnel cost me $1670 used. It's really old. It has an electronic ballast, double ended bulb, and some dents - it looks like a prop from original Star Wars. So far it has survived many shoots. I've lent it to friends a lot of the time. They have different kinds of lights, and they help me out if I need it.

On the personal projects you do, is it going to be just you? Or will you have a small team? Just trying to get a sense of your projects.

Maybe I am tungsten-averse because I am always filming in hot places of the world - South Africa, LA, etc - and have bad memories of cast and crew sweating miserably while simultaneously worrying about overloading circuits, etc.

But I agree there is something magical to that feeling of holding a toasty scrim, smelling the scent of singed gloves, playing with barndoors, making little snoots, melting gels, setting fire to the ceiling, etc...

So I think you should just disregard everything I said, buy your lighting kit, and have fun!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
To carry on with the hot tungsten bashing, they are horribly inefficient, breaker tripping, location fire starting, finger burning, talent torturing beasts.

They're fine in the studio, where there is plenty of power and no daylight, but on location they are just plain awful. Try to gel a relatively small, say 1k, with full blue, and you have no punch at all to overcome the ambient light on location. Forget about bringing the talent up even close to the level of a window in the BG.

I strongly urge you to start with the biggest fluorescent fixture you can manage as your key light and supplement as you go along.

It's free advice and perhaps worth only what it costs you, but I've been using all HMI and fluorescent only on location (except for a few small Fresnel fixtures to paint the BG) and I will never, never go back to the bad old days of making sparks trying to tie-in.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
I would like to add a Kino Flow to my kit and was wondering which one to go with...what is the good standard one I often see on sets, I am guessing this one?
http://www.filmtools.com/kiflofo400ki.html

I just did a week working with day lights and they just look so damn good with RED, I think you can do a lot with one of these I linked above.
 
This is more money, but twice the punch; makes a great location key: http://extranet.mole.com/public/index.cgi?cmd=view_item&parent=&id=63413

You can buy here or elsewhere for around $1400.00: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...on_7421A_Biax_8_Fluorescent_Fixture_with.html

I do love Kino Flo fixtures and prefer big apertures as on the Flat Heads & Image 85s, but the Mole Biax 8 is a lot of punch for the buck.

Of course the smaller aperture of the Biax 8 will give a harder look.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
Haskell said:
I would like to add a Kino Flow to my kit and was wondering which one to go with...what is the good standard one I often see on sets, I am guessing this one?
http://www.filmtools.com/kiflofo400ki.html

I just did a week working with day lights and they just look so damn good with RED, I think you can do a lot with one of these I linked above.
Click to expand...

The one in the link will work fine, but you may want the "Select 4" version with a separate ballast that allows you to switch the tubes remotely if it was mounted high up on a stand or other inaccessible position. It seems a bit cheaper too from this dealer.
http://www.filmtools.com/kiflo4se4bsy.html
 
Just went on their web site to order a kit, and you can't even get anything.
After the checkout option it takes you back to the order page.
Bummer

Albert
 
i need to get a kit also.. the question is.. daylight balanced or tungsten? tungsten = cheaper (i think...)
so if i go tungsten, will a daylight blue gel due the trick to keep my sensor happy?
 
Anyone familiar with this model?

Mole Richardson 1200W MolePar HMI Light

How much would a kit like this cost? (including ballast)
 
Love daylight temp lighting. We have a Joker Bug 800 HMI and a Kino kit but, also recently did an upgrade to our Lowel Rifa soft lights. Lowel has a kit you can switch from tungsten fixtures to daylight fluorescent just by swapping out the light head and bulbs, it's pretty nifty. Certainly not the punch of an HMI but still outputs a nice soft light for fill and low key situations.
 
albert rudnicki said:
Just went on their web site to order a kit, and you can't even get anything.
After the checkout option it takes you back to the order page.
Bummer

Albert
Click to expand...

Hi Albert,

Thats because you're based in Canada. I handle all international orders manually as I don't trust Fedex's API quoting for outside of the USA. On international, it doesn't seem to be super accurate for some reason and we often times get a bill later for a larger amount than what was quoted and what the customer paid. So to avoid this, I only handle everything outside of the country manually now. Its just a question of sending me in an email exactly what you wanted and then we come back with an invoice with the shipping costs and everything. Thanks.
 
Zakaree said:
i need to get a kit also.. the question is.. daylight balanced or tungsten? tungsten = cheaper (i think...)
so if i go tungsten, will a daylight blue gel due the trick to keep my sensor happy?
Click to expand...

Sure, tungsten is cheaper up front, but look at the overall long haul costs associated with increased electricity use and shorter bulb life. Bulb life is much longer with metal halide and fluorescent. Also, when you have tungsten you have to gel CTB to get daylight whereas with flo or metal halide, its just a change of bulb to get either and therefore no loss of light through gelling. The RED loves daylight.
 
coollights said:
Sure, tungsten is cheaper up front, but look at the overall long haul costs associated with increased electricity use and shorter bulb life. Bulb life is much longer with metal halide and fluorescent. Also, when you have tungsten you have to gel CTB to get daylight whereas with flo or metal halide, its just a change of bulb to get either and therefore no loss of light through gelling. The RED loves daylight.
Click to expand...

oh dont you worry. i already plan on getting some lights from you
 
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