Life after Pi rant after reading first thread on subject

[Michael McLaughlin]

Major rant coming...

message divided into concurrent post...

hit a nerve for me...


Rant on:

What I got from this doc...

...Let them eat cake (at 26:20),

...some crocodile tears (some were not),

...and the best.... "hey you're an "artist", and at the end of the day...
and after you have lost your job, career blah, blah, blah; you're
still an "artist" and they can't take that away from you".


Words escape me...



Sorta joking... sorta not.



In the end, people in the U.S. Entertainment industry have to either now... or in the short
future; compete against workers in countries that are earning anywhere from 1/4 to 1/10th
what you get.

Be it VFX, IT, production, so on and so on. So you need to adjust accordingly.

And that will still not be enough in a lot of situations.

And, I am not talking about Canada, Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, France, Britain etc.
as the people you are competing against.

No, no, no, I am talking about the other non-western or narrowly westernized (for our corporations sake) countries.

Real command and control economies, if you will.

You know, in the countries where they call their leader “State Chairman” but our press calls them president (like they
where elected in a democratic system). Although I think they do now (and have for a while) call him president... in their
own state controlled press.

Now it's not all these countries, but that one big one, is that way. And that one, like it or not, has immense sway in the region.

These people from those countries, that we from the U.S.A. are really competing against,
live in communal housing, or multigenerational homes (or apartments) where everybody
pools money and resources to survive and take care of kids etc.

And if not that, they are living in places much, much, smaller than what the average U.S. citizen lives in, or thinks about living in.

Not all, but a lot.

This is not a swipe at those countries or the people... those individuals I visited and the friends I stayed with seemed happy.

It's tricky trying to make comparisons at this atomized level.

So yes, maybe the VFX quality from these individuals doesn't match with what some
“hot-shot” in LA can do... but if you are trying to use that argument, your are missing
the point.

Because I can tell you from firsthand experience, when sitting here in a crowded movie theatre in the midwest, THEY don't
give a SHIT about these VFX flubs in the VFX content... created by VFX houses in these other countries.

Hell... to me it seems that there are still a large portion of these midwest folks who “still” watch content at home... on SD TV sets. So much so that my parents cable provider is handing out free digital to analog converter boxes so they don't have a bunch of irate customers... when the big digital switch hits.

Are THESE really the people you are expecting to be up in arms about some crappy done VFX... when there only frame of reference for day to day viewing (until maybe recently) is a SD set?

I mean... full on HD converted... out to SD RCA video cable connection, free of charge.

Think about that one for a second... then come back and try to continue the whole these foreign countries quality is sub par.

It was quite a surprise when I moved back here to the midwest from Hollywood.

Although in the last year I have seen a lot more CRTs on the side of the rode. But is this
something to use as hope? These people just started viewing shit in HD, and some of them still can't tell any difference what so ever.

AND although it may bug the shit out of me to see compositing, animation, or lighting errors etc., it would have to be SO atrocious for them
(the flyover state's average movie goer) to even notice; that in the end... it just doesn't matter.

It is more than “just good enough” for these state's entertainment crowds.

And like it or not they still go to the movies, and they do make up a significant portion of the audience, and those ticket sales still amount to
a large enough part of the profit, that if these midwest folk don't care...

…trust me, the producers ain't going to sweat it in the end when moving their VFX to Bangalore India...

...instead of Bangor Maine.

He/she may act like they care to the nth degree (on the VFX)... but in the end, when it
comes down to the financial end, the producer knows just what level of quality he/she can
get passed the eyes of “Podunk” Amurica.

And from having conversations here with people in the heartland, the quality level for
VFX could actually go a lot lower, and they still wouldn't notice or wouldn't care.

So if it's made by some person from, Slovakia, Slovenia, China, India, Singapore or even Laos, working for 1/4th to 1/10th what someone
in the U.S.A. makes; but only turning in quality between 60 and 80 percent of what a person from the U.S.A. can do...

Who do you think the studios or production company owners are going to go with from now on and into the future?

That 40% less quality, judged on errors by a digital veteran pro from Hollywood... won't even be noticed by these “middle of America” end consumers.



Joe six pack from the midwest DOES not see PIXELS... he sees boobs.


I kid, I kid... but you get my point.



Unions.



Yah.... won't happen.

Joe six pack hates unions anyways. Even Joe six pack who works in a union... hates Unions:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/joe-the-plumber-wurzelbacher-union-job-chrysler



Oh, AND... those legal arguments brought up by this “ADAPT” won't win in these trade courts
we have right now, or in the future...

...PERIOD.

Not even a dent.

Don't believe me, see statement above about Joe Six Pack, then read the political affiliation,
or economic mindset of almost all the judges that sit on those courts... or the briefs (friend of the court / amicus curiae briefs) filed,
that judges sway toward, and then the wordings of the rulings that followed.

It's just not in the cards, because when these judges look at Hollywood... they see billions,
wether you are making a survivable part of that or not, means nothing to them. Plus the
other side of your legal battle, well they outnumber you with lobbyist by a factor of 10 to 1.

Ain't going to happen.

Flush your money down a toilet, you get a quicker resolution to the end of your dollars and
it won't take years just to get the verdict of how quixotic adventure it was.

But hey it will create a lot of money for those few attorneys and lobbyist you get there
in D.C.

: - (

All kidding aside, I can't see how VFX will not escape the fate of textiles, steel, etc.

And trust me, I HATE this with all my heart as I sit here typing in a region that use to be
vibrant... and had a future for everyone. It's now just a rusted out husk, with crumbling
buildings and infrastructure that could give Detroit... a run for it's derelict status.

Also, after working at a substitute teaching job, because it's the most flexible while taking
care of a terminally ill parent...

...even a lot of the full time teachers here are of the “tea party” persuasion and hate unions
(while being in a union) and can't wait till it's all charter and private schools.

Which I don't think they fully understand how much less pay, benefits (if any) those type of
schools offer. Not to mention that there are several substitutes that are teaching with me
in the public school system, who use to teach in private charter and religious school systems
who were conveniently let go/laid off before they could collect retirement in these private
systems (type of retirement system).

I don't see much of a real change from this path, so all I can do myself is prepare. I have
reduced my lifestyle accordingly. I pretty much accept that I will work the rest of my life,
and keep it simple.

So questions becomes, why shouldn't you... and to top it off, why can't you be happy with
the work that a lot of you still do get, or unbudge-able lower pay they offer you.

 

[Michael McLaughlin]

THIS is NOT how “I” believe it should be, our how our economy should run... that proverbial rush to the bottom for lowest wages paid...

...but this is how a lot of people in the U.S.A. will look at it.

They look at it like this (as I hear them talk at work, bars, church etc.) and say:

“if I have to do with a whole lot less, and still survive... why the fuck should the elite in Hollywood be protected in any way shape or form, union, tax subsidy, or anything else.”

They will go on to say:

“anyways if these Hollywood types were truly worth it, people would be knocking down their sunny California doors to offer 'em that fat paycheck.”

Don't hate me, I am just reporting from the front lines here in good ol' America, or at least
my part of the midwest. I use to try to say stuff back... but then my patriotism starts getting
questioned, and fights can turn ugly.

I think many in Hollywood and the rest of the entertainment industry, specifically “below the line” people have to start being aware of this type of mindthink more than normal. Not cause it's right, or that you haven't taken already some massive blows as is, it's just the rest of the country looks at you...

…and thinks you are already living super duper high on the hog.


And to be completely honest, from some of the trailer parks and “small community” living towns that dot a lot more of the hinter land than you think there would be... you guys really are.

And don't make the mistake thinking they are jealous, they ain't, it is much more murky
and convoluted then an off the cuff remark like that.

I know your rent is high, and houses impossible to buy for some of you in CA, I lived there
and slaved away for 15 years... but this is the way it will be for the foreseeable future for a
lot of you, if not permanent. And a lot of the people here from the midwest honestly think
it's about time a lot of you highflying Californian or Entertainment people got taken down a
notch or two anyways.

And the producers/studio heads know this also.

I don't see how a lot of you can avoid this end, even in the entertainment industries outside VFX.

There will be a knock on effect outside and inside, to what seems to be disparate entertainment industry divisions, not even directly related to VFX, that will also suffer.

Call it what it what you want,

invisible hand of the market,

market efficiency etc. etc.,

But for a large portion of the U.S.A. this is already how it's been, now going on for decades.


Why make steel here when you can have it done in companies oversees that would hold
its employees hostage with the threat of violence by gun and so on.

I know, I know, but bad products etc. etc....

...but do you really think the average customer now shopping at Walmart, Chicago tools
stores, or Big Lots really gives a shit when all things are considered. These now are becoming more and more (and the dollar stores) the happy shopping grounds of
that average middle class American shopper.


And why create tech products here when you can do it at companies oversees that have
built in suicide nets that can catch the worker who has lost it, and “still” work everyone else
till they exhaust themselves... this saves a lot of money.

I know, I know, there is all these jobs coming back to be manufactured here....

...but to me again, from middle of America vantage point, it only seems like a couple of real honest stabs at it, and the rest are just PR stunts masking the fact that the majority of the products are manufactured in sweatshop or full on internment-camp style slave labor-shops overseas... building these products.


There will still be a few companies, and a lot of them with mailbox office “fronts” here in the U.S.

But I am telling you... you won't escape what everybody else has gone through. I am just amazed it's lasted this long. The first brutal wake up for VFX seemed like it happened in the 98 to 00 time period (not really counting the first TRON era movie boom and bust stuff).

Boy was that 98-00 brutal, having just moved to Hollywood full-time trying to break into VFX.

In one summer there were thousands of people suddenly (with-in a month it seemed) out of work. It seemed the L.A. Times couldn't print enough doom and gloom about VFX companies going under, so much so I switched to a more T.V. production, commercial career.

And even that became dicey.

But you know the old saying, that it's a "privilege" and a “honor” to work in this industry... of
course the unwritten law is that this “fact” alone should suffice in lieu of overtime pay.

Of course coincidentally they seem to also say that right about when the next paycheck they
give you will immediately bounce (when you try to cash it at your bank).

Had this happen more than a couple times.


So in the end I adjust... and my parent's illness forced me really to adjust.







Oh, side note.

For all you youngsters...

...when the bosses start cutting back on that cheap-ass candy left in the break room...

be very wary...

very, very, wary.





-snark off

 

[Marc Wielage]

Major rant coming...I don't see much of a real change from this path, so all I can do myself is prepare. I have reduced my lifestyle accordingly. I pretty much accept that I will work the rest of my life, and keep it simple. So questions becomes, why shouldn't you... and to top it off, why can't you be happy with the work that a lot of you still do get, or unbudge-able lower pay they offer you.

I'm confused. Are you ranting against the short film, or are you on their side?

To me, the two biggest issues are pretty clear cut:

1) the VFX industry has evolved into a bidding process that makes it difficult for VFX houses to charge higher rates when projects require changes, additional shots, or otherwise go beyond the initial cost agreed upon by the studio

2) movie studios are moving projects to states or areas where they can get the best possible tax breaks, regardless of available talent or facilities.

Keeping a viable VFX facility afloat while also giving employees a reasonable income, reasonable hours, and reasonable benefits are increasingly difficult. All of these things used to be possible all the way through the 1990s, but starting about 10 years ago, things started to go south. I think a great deal of it boils down to bad planning on the part of producers, and unrealistic expectations on the parts of studios and their budgets.

I've worked for two VFX facilities as a staff colorist: Cinesite in Hollywood (no longer in business) and Industrial Light & Magic in San Rafael (since moved to San Francisco). Both provided decent wages and benefits and were run by nice people. The VFX business is bloody, messy, and miserable... and I thought the post business was bad. VFX is far worse.

 

[Michael McLaughlin]

Yes Marc,

I may be reading into it, but some of the stuff I pointed out... seems really odd, like are they really seeing the big picture or
is there some inside joking, but it could be me. I've had a bad week, and maybe the cake scene and the other things were
taken way to far out of context.

I guess I wanted more of the lower level workers perspective, and not that many of the higher ups... which struck me as deer
in the headlights but a self serving... self aggrandizement sort of deal. I am sure the tears were real... but it just struck me
not in the best light.

I haven't worked at big level studios like you, not directly, thru smaller companies, it's tough all around, but something just
struck me as off.

The are a lot of parts I agree with.

Everything you said I agree with... but with the added fact that, it's not even tax breaks any more, because that is still not enough,
I truly believe that this is just the start of another big outsourcing wave, way bigger than what is going on, that will be on the level
of the steel, textile, and other industries of the past... and to countries where pay is so low, no tax break is needed.

Ya quality sucks, but like my post above... Joe six pack ain't going to notice the difference.

But then again maybe my "which way the wind is blowing" meter is completely fucked and I am seeing storms where there aren't any.

 

[ericyoung]

Big business & corrupt politicians have done a great job dividing and conquering us all.

Some bad over-powerful unions abused their power in the past which was just stupid short term thinking and failed to match big business/politician propaganda which used those union abuses & just hammered them over and over.
Big union leaders, like politicians, can become corrupt and out for themselves too, which doesn't help!

On a positive note I doubt any of the A-list directors will sign off on sub-par effects.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Some bad over-powerful unions abused their power in the past which was just stupid short term thinking and failed to match big business/politician propaganda which used those union abuses & just hammered them over and over.
Big union leaders, like politicians, can become corrupt and out for themselves too, which doesn't help!

I'd love to hear some examples. Union wages for camera operators, video people, editors, and sound people have gone down and benefits have been cut over the past 20 years. It's harder than ever to qualify for health insurance. Incidents of short-turnaround have become worse, not better, over the years. Long hours are becoming the norm, not the exception. And the safety of the crew often suffers, as witnessed by the recent death of AC Sarah Jones in Georgia.

The VFX people have never had a union -- at least not in NY, LA, San Francisco, or any major U.S. city -- and they're getting screwed the worst. This is a very sobering documentary, and it encapsulates how difficult that business is right now.

 

[Peter Lyons Collister ASC]

Michel,

I happened to have worked with R&H for many many years. What Marc said is true, studios and creatives with high expectations and unwilling to add money, VFX houses who strove to do better and better work (look at Narnia. The animals were all other houses and then the lion was R&H and even an untrained eye could see how incredible he was) R&H DID outsource. They created a sister company in India and they still could not stay afloat.

So I believe the doc was pretty great in conveying the sad turn of events in that one segment of our fast changing work environment of "Hollywood".

 

[ericyoung]

I'd love to hear some examples. Union wages for camera operators, video people, editors, and sound people have gone down and benefits have been cut over the past 20 years. It's harder than ever to qualify for health insurance. Incidents of short-turnaround have become worse, not better, over the years. Long hours are becoming the norm, not the exception. And the safety of the crew often suffers, as witnessed by the recent death of AC Sarah Jones in Georgia.

The VFX people have never had a union -- at least not in NY, LA, San Francisco, or any major U.S. city -- and they're getting screwed the worst. This is a very sobering documentary, and it encapsulates how difficult that business is right now.

I'm thinking of the UK unions (as not surprisingly I didn't follow US union disputes at all growing up in England), although there seems to be a quite a lot of anti-union sentiments expressed by US citizens on US media available in the UK, so I thought there must have been some power issues there too.

Before Margaret Thatcher set out to successfully decimate the British Unions in the early 80s, many UK industries had extremely strong unions. To the general public in the late 70s, there seemed to be a strike by one union or another every week, often disrupting major transport or other important infrastructure. The reasons for the strikes, at least as reported in the rightwing press, often seemed to be over issues which should have gone through rounds of negotiations first, or seemed to be for frequent above inflation pay rises when Britain had out of control high inflation hurting everybody else, or they were striking to reinstate workers who had been sacked for dismissible offences, and similar perceived behaviour. Comedians used to joke about the union cry of "Everybody out!!" over any trivial disagreement.

They also ran "closed shops" where employers could only employ someone who was in the union. It could be argued this ensured adequate training, standards & safety, which it can, but it gives a union enormous power in that workplace too. When a strike was called, and some union workers chose to work anyway, because say their own financial situation precluded a protracted loss of income, then these workers were subjected to quite horrendous intimidation & hostility.

Arthur Scargill, leader of the National Union of Miners ran his union like his personal dictatorship. His militancy meant an inability to compromise, even in the union's best long term interest.

Rightly or wrongly, after widespread major strike action during the 1978–1979 "Winter of Discontent" the unions lost the majority of public support resulting in the fall of the union supported Labour government and Thatcher coming into power.

 

[Marc Wielage]

I'm thinking of the UK unions (as not surprisingly I didn't follow US union disputes at all growing up in England), although there seems to be a quite a lot of anti-union sentiments expressed by US citizens on US media available in the UK, so I thought there must have been some power issues there too.

Nowadays, it's an entirely different economy, plus the middle class here has been fairly well decimated. As the old song and saying goes, "the rich get richer while the poor gets poorer." Unions have generally been about the middle class just trying to get a fair wage for reasonable work.

In the last 10 years, IATSE here in the U.S. has created multiple levels of contracts so that even very low-budget movies (under $1,000,000) have lower rates for contracts that will allow a full union crew for camera, lighting, sound, grips, script supervisors, D.I.T.'s, props, makeup, everybody. Union film work today is not the "goldbricking" overpaid kind of employee some believe it to have been 20 or 30 years ago.

But in truth, a union would not necessarily have saved the employees of Rhythm & Hues. The problems lie more with the studios and the bidding process than anything else, and somebody has to take a stand and find a way through business to protect the VFX company's interest while still delivering great work.

Watch the whole documentary -- it's quite sobering, and at the end you may find yourself saying, "wow -- these guys didn't do anything wrong! Why are they out of work?"

I think the saddest part to me is that director Ang Lee never bothered to thank the VFX crew at all in his awards speeches for the creation of the tiger in Life of Pi, and in fact when he was asked about Rhythm & Hues' bankruptcy, he kind of shrugged and said, "the problem in the VFX business is the high salaries" (or words to that effect). To me, that was a real uncaring "let them eat cake" kind of response.