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Lenses for 2/3" Scarlet?

Matt Dufilho

Matt Dufilho

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For the 2/3 Scarlet:

Could anyone recommend a specific lens, or group of lenses, that might be a good starting place for an "interchangeable lens newbie" looking for a good zoom. I had heard/read some of the concerns in using a back focus lens/B4 mount because of the difficulty of getting correct back focus on a 2/3 sensor, and was curious where you guys would start for a solid zoom lens for the 2/3" Scarlet? What would be a good focal range for general use? What mount?

Thanks.
 
For 2/3" Scarlet, I think a good place to start could be a PL mount with S16mm lenses. RED also has their upcoming set of "mini primes" that look very interesting.

Most 2/3" lens solutions on the market now are for broadcast cameras and will require a B4 mount. The problem there is that most broadcast lenses come in two flavors. One is older and will not have the resolving power for the 3K sensor. The other more common type is optimized for "HD" cameras and will probably resolve with enough detail, however they are typically set up to compensate for 3-chip imaging systems. There will need to be some means of optical correction in there to get proper convergent results on the single-chip CMOS sensor. ...This is why RED's current B4 adapter for the RED One has optical elements inside it and also why it is rather expensive for a lens adapter.
 
Thanks, Jeff.

So, just for clarification, I should look to pick up the B4 to PL adapter and take a look at S16 lenses, right? Will the S16 have full 3K coverage? Any recommendations on a good S16mm zoom?

Thanks, again, for the advice.
 
No. don't get the B4 to PL adapter! I would not recommend it unless you already have B4 mount lenses to use.

Personally, I would wait until more detailed information comes out on Scarlet. I want to see what RED will be offering and when -- those mini primes look perfect. S16 will cover the 2/3" area just fine, so you will get full 3K out of S16mm glass.

There are also various C-Mount options that may be a good option.

You can use 35mm lenses with the 2/3" Scarlet system as well. It's just not a very elegant solution in that you get a severly cropped FOV.

S16mm PL mount glass can be a good budget solution. But I fear we may see a run on 16mm PL lenses like we have now with 35mm PL lenses, if RED doesn't get their mini primes out the door along with Scarlet.
 
I'm excited to find out more info on the RED mini-primes. Hopefully they'll be released at the same time as the cam.
 
Hey Jeff,
I asked this question on another thread and didn't get an answer, maybe you can help me out: If you used 35mm Cinema Lenses -like Cooke S4 - on a 2/3" sensor, in what manner does it crop the field of view? Someone mentioned about 4x mag/crop ratio for Nikon/Canon lenses, so for a Cinema Lens would it be the same? An 18mm S4 would be around a 72mm on the 2/3" sensor... I know it's a very newb question, but I'd love the info.
Thanks
 
The field of view factor from S35 to 2/3" video is 2.5, so to get the equivalent field of view of a 50mm lens on a 2/3" sensor, you need a 20mm lens.

But an 18mm lens will always look the same depending on the format, whether it's a B4 mount or PL mount lens. To match an 18 in S35 you'd need a 7 in 2/3". An 18mm in 2/3 would look like a 45mm in S35. Hope that's clear.

Also, since the 2/3" sensor is a bit smaller than S16, standard 16mm lenses should also cover the sensor if I'm not mistaken.

You'll also probably be able to get both a B4 mount and a PL mount that you could swap back and forth instead of using an adapter.
 
It seems that the Scarlet Cinema (interchangeable lenses) might come out before the Scarlet Fixed Zoom.
I only say this because the estimated dates say 'Summer/Fall' and 'Fall' respectively.

Now you would also expect that they would have at least one mini-prime ready for sale when the
Scarlet Cinema is ready (Like with the Red ONE).

I'm placing my bet that the first mini-prime to go on sale will be a killer deal.
Fingers crossed for the $1000 mark ... and hoping for specs soon <hint> <hint>.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
For 2/3" Scarlet, I think a good place to start could be a PL mount with S16mm lenses. RED also has their upcoming set of "mini primes" that look very interesting.
Click to expand...

RED mini-primes look like they could be a very good solution, depending of course on price.

As far as other glass goes, I think the best price/performance point won't actually be the PL mount S16 lenses, but regular 16mm C-mount lenses instead, like the type you'd use on a Bolex or Beaulieu camera. There are some really good lenses out there that (at least for now) there isn't much of a market for since so few people shoot regular 16mm anymore. You can probably get a very solid zoom (like the Angenieux 9.5-57 HEC) for much cheaper than most of the equivalent S16 lenses.

Any regular 16mm lens will definitely cover Scarlet's sensor, and though I couldn't say for sure, my guess is that decent 16mm glass would resolve 3K. Never really had a chance to test that though, but looking forward to doing so once Scarlet comes out.

All that said, I'm definitely waiting to see about the RED mini-primes. I would definitely assume that you're going to get better system integration and performance than any C-mount lens, so if they sell for a reasonable price, they'll probably be the way to go. Unless of course, RED makes a mini-RED zoom lens for Scarlet.
 
Jason Murphy said:
so if they sell for a reasonable price, they'll probably be the way to go. Unless of course, RED makes a mini-RED zoom lens for Scarlet.
Click to expand...

If you are going to get a zoom only for the scarlet, why not just go fixed?
just curious
 
Peter Mosiman said:
If you are going to get a zoom only for the scarlet, why not just go fixed?
just curious
Click to expand...

Because if you buy an affordable zoom, then when you need a better lens you can rent one. I'm afraid if I buy a fixed lens version, I'll want a set of primes for some occasion (T 1.3 16mm superspeeds, for example and have no options. If you can get a Cmount 16mm lens, plus a b4 or pl mount for around $500, you have a similar starting point for nearly the same money as the fixed , but with options to expand. I think that's why this discussion comes up.
 
Also, since the 2/3" sensor is a bit smaller than S16, standard 16mm lenses should also cover the sensor if I'm not mistaken.
Click to expand...

The 2/3" sensor actually has an active scanning area that is more like letter boxed std 16.

Make sure you get good glass. Low end glass will not suffice for this sensor. It must past min 100lpmm to even resolve 2k.
 
brainburst said:
Make sure you get good glass. Low end glass will not suffice for this sensor. It must past min 100lpmm to even resolve 2k.
Click to expand...

Good point. I've heard old 16mm glass might not resolve this much.

Still, if I found an otherwise good lens for a few hundred dollars, it would not be a sin to get it and use it. Some movies have been shot in 16mm, with such lenses.

It may seem wasteful to not use every single pixel you have, but in practice there are more important things that make up a good movie.
 
The red mini primes I find very interesting. I have no idea what the price will be and that will be a big factor. But looking at the specs of the glass they look like they will be a heck of a nice set to have. If they come in at an outrageously low price like the camera I will probably just go with the primes.

If I could even get 3 of the primes for $1000 I would be all over that (I suspect I am way out to lunch and they will be more then this but one can dream even if it seems to be a delusional dream.)
 
brainburst said:
....Make sure you get good glass. Low end glass will not suffice for this sensor. It must past min 100lpmm to even resolve 2k.
Click to expand...

Definitelly ... BUT which are these GOOD lenses? Can anybody point at some? I would like to know which are good entry level lenses and which are best ones to look for. Thanx.
 
aidenvfx said:
If I could even get 3 of the primes for $1000 I would be all over that (I suspect I am way out to lunch and they will be more then this but one can dream even if it seems to be a delusional dream.)
Click to expand...

3 primes for $1,000 is beyond delusional. Maybe 1 prime.
 
I heard on a podcast about some of the difficulty in getting accurate back focus on B4 mount lenses, and that it is especially difficult on a 2/3 camera due to the size of the sensor. Has anyone heard this or dealt with it before?
 
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