Lens Recommendations and light meter for Scarlet

[Jarvis Alston]

Hello RED users (makes us sound like drug addicts, lol),

I will be ordering a Scarlet within the next few days and would appreciate some advice on some lenses to get. I have a budget of about $6K and would like to get 3 lenses to cover all of my needs. I am planning to make darker films, horror and thriller, so low lighting situations would be pretty common. But I would still like to be able to cover the day shots as well. I would basically like a wide zoom lens, a prime that will cover most "normal" shots, and a long zoom lens.

I would like to use the zoom lenses almost as variable primes, as I've heard that this can be done in a pinch and to save money on having to buy several primes. For example, if I had a 17-50mm lens, I could set it on 35mm and use it as I would a prime. If you don't believe I will be able to get away with this and should just invest in 3 different primes then please let me know.

If I could spend $2K a lens that would be perfect. Would a PL or Canon mount be better suited? I will be buying the Scarlet package, so I'll either get the PL one or the Canon one. The decision will be made on which lenses are better and capture a more cinematic image.

Also, how necessary is a light meter for use with a scarlet? and would it aid me in shooting. I will be shooting mostly amateur films and some music videos. Reason I ask is my mother just finished reading Robert Rodriguez's "Rebel Without a Crew" and has said she's going to buy me a light meter for Christmas because she read that its an essential part of filmmaking equipment. The model that she has found is the Spectra Professional IV-A #18002-A. If this would be suitable to use with a Scarlet please let me know.

Please keep any negative criticism about my inexperience to yourself I am working very hard in an underground coal mine to be able to pay for my equipment and have decided to purchase the Scarlet, I would really appreciate your helpful advice in getting started. I have been writing scripts in my spare time for years now, and don't have much more shooting experience than a few shorts I've made with friends throughout the years. Many of the greats have started this same way I learn best by just picking up the equipment and teaching myself. And I want to teach myself the best.

Thank you very much for your replies. Look forward to hearing from you all.

Jarvis

 

[David Kellermann]

Hi Jarvis,

I love old Nikon AI-s or AI lenses. They have a very filmic look, are very well build and quite cheap. You can get an Optitek Nikon mount for your Scarlet or add Canon adapters to your Nikon lenses (http://www.leitax.com/Nikon-lens-for-Canon-cameras.html). Don't use the cheap removable Nikon->Canon adapter since they aren't as rock solid as the Leitax adapters.

I would add gear rings to the lenses (have a look at http://ducloslenses.com/Duclos_Lenses/zf.html)

You can get a great set (20, 24, 28, 35, 50, 55, 85, 105, 135, 180) for $2k!

Regards
David

 

[paulherrin]

for canon mount: tokina 11-16 f3.5 and canon 70-200 f2.8L ISII are some of the best zooms/lenses out there period, and very cost effective. i would combine that with a few prime lenses, perhaps from zeiss. otherwise check out canon's offerings. on the cheap, i really like the 28 f1.8 and the 85 1.8. you can also check out the more expense L-series primes. you'll probably want a 50mm prime in there.

nikon lenses are very good, but at this point you will not yet have any kind of communication between them and the camera, so you will either need adapted lenses with a manual f-stop, adapted lenses by duclos, or a dumb mount running around with a wide open aperture all the time. those zeiss lenses modded by duclos (you can get canon mount as well) come very well recommended.

for pl mount: look into the red zooms and red primes. they're heavy, but really good lenses at a very fair price. otherwise, look at the zeiss lenses modified by duclos for PL mount. considering your budget and use, PL mount is probably not going to be the route you want to take. the PL lenses are typically higher quality, and have been used traditionally with cinema, but they are very costly in comparison to still lenses - which work pretty much just as well in most cases, and better in some situations, in my opinion. alternatively, you can rent lenses. really not a bad idea if you're unsure about which ones to buy. you shouldn't feel like you need to rush into making a big purchase, especially when uninformed.


a light meter is much more useful and necessary for shooting on film negative. rebel without a crew was written well before the time of digital cinema. i do not ever find myself using or wanting a light meter with digital cameras, it wastes time and energy. if you don't already have a comfortable practice using one that helps you make precision imagery, i wouldn't even worry about getting one. most of the time, the best reason to pull one out is to look busy or important - which, for whatever reason, are highly celebrated in the industry.

if you're starting out, i'd put those resources towards other accessories.

 

[Dave Blackham]

The Nikkor Ai lenses have a longer focus throw than the AIS lenses. Virtualy the same opticaly, they are older so be sure to get them in good order. However filming is hard enough as it is so using stills lenses is not easy. You may be better the Leica R lenses which do focus the right way and have a long focus throw. Try the Summicron's and Elmarits. There are some useful short zooms too. You will need an A mount lens mount or Canon with Leica R adaptor, the Fotodiox adaptors are good but if you use them get the Pro versions.

 

[paulherrin]

yeah, leica r lenses are some of the best out there - i'd look into them

 

[Mike Halper]

Another vote for the Zeiss ZF. You can save some money buying used ones too. The cinemod is worth it. I had Duclos install the focus gears and declicked the aperture ring myself (you need to get the right grease!). The focus is shorter because it's a still lens, so pulling focus takes some practice. The focus pull is also reversed compared to other lenses, so that's something to get used to, but not a big deal. Image quality is excellent! The ZF is the same glass as used in the Zeiss CP.2's (which run about $24k for 6 lenses). With the ZF you can start with 3-5 lenses now, and get them cinemodded, and stay within your $6k budget. You can then build out the rest of the set over time.

 

[Lliam Worthington]

Hi Jarvis, I try to keep my head low unless I really know what I'm talking about. And while there are many far more experienced users on here than I. I've just spent several weeks researching this very subject, (going half mad) prob put about 100 + hours into reading reviews, histories, sites, charts, etc, while comparing performance and pricing on multiple possible variations of sets I could look to put together, on a budget close to yours, for the purpose of narrative film making. I have also had many conversations/email exchanges with opinions from some of the industries best. So my advice also reflects that which was graciously given to me. So I think I can post some help.

Option #1
Simplicity plus the best cinema quality available close to your budget is to get a battle tested 18-85 Red Pro.
http://www.red.com/store/battle-tested/product/red-pro-zoom-18-85mm-t29-i-bt
That's the pro. And that's a BIG one.

Cons:
Big & heavy.
Widest FOV 29mm with the 1.6 crop. Though at 85 you've essentially got the FOV of having a 135mm lens in your kit.
At 2.9, not super fast.
Budget - PL mount is extra $. Any additional glass is exxy and renting also is of course more expensive.
Correct me if I'm wrong anyone - but I think it would actually be cheaper to get Scarlet with an AL canon mount.
and an All star mount + All star PL adapter.

I probably would have gone this route if it was not for : The extra cost of the PL mount $1500 + duty and tax on a 6K item coming into Aus (add about another grand) which I can avoid buying separate prime lenses for under 1k. This came close but blew my budget. And for me the Tokina 11-16 with the 1.6 crop is a bit of a must have lens. So I had to add another $700 approx.
Also the weight/support and lesser ability to be inconspicuous for guerilla were concerns.

Option #2
Canon Zooms + Tokina
These options are well documented on Scarlet RU lens threads.
Simplest way, get a Tokina 11 - 16
Canon 24-70L
Canon 70-200
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/264304-USA/Canon_8014A002_Zoom_Wide_Angle_Telephoto_EF.html
And with your 6K budget pick up perhaps a 35 1.4L prime and a 50 1.2 or 85 1.2 (which is said to be pretty stellar)
Personally if I was going Canon with 6K approx for narrative, I'd get Tokina 11-16, 24, 35 and 50 L primes and a 70-200.

Fantastic kit really. And when compared to what Indie's have been making films with for many years... man we are just so spoilt to even be able to consider turning up our noses at this sort of a set up these days Amazing times to be an Indie film maker.

Cons:
There has been debate about the quality of the wider focal length zooms for 4k.
They are not designed for cine work unlike the RP 18-85 or the much more favourable build and focus throw of the Zeiss or Leica still lenses.
Which brings to option...

#3

Leica R

You won't hear a bad word. Which at 6k is one of the problems, there's a great thread on Leica R lenses hear on RU.
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread...000-high-quality-7-lens-prime-set-in-Canon-EF
But the 8k prices Matt has put together his 7 lense set for have become inflated since then. (I was gutted) Even with a set of 6 not 7, if you want the lenses which are the known performers, then A) you have to be willing to do a lot of research, which then leads you to B) Once Cine modded + Leitax adapters, I was coming out closer to 9K. Which is still fantastic, if you have 9k. I didn't. But if you ditched the modding and or got lucky or took a couple of compromises, such as the slower but awesome - 35-70 F4 Leica zoom you could certainly still put a kit together with a 6k budget. BUt fwiwi, Sanjin (resident lord of Leica around these parts ) advised me to get an 18-85 RP at around this budget point if you had Indie features in mind.

That said, if your keen, or someone else who goes this way, (Especially of you have closer to 10K) the best places to look are Leica Vintage store, KEH and last imo, ebay. Note: I also found German Ebay (+ online translator ) as another great way to find some particular lenses that sometimes weren't coming up on ebay international.

Some of the best research resources

Leitax is terrific with links and the like
http://www.leitax.com/

Leica Compendium
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/compendium.shtml

Pebbleplace
http://www.pebbleplace.com/Personal/Leica_db.html

The lens performance survey
http://www.photozone.de/active/survey/querylens.jsp


#4

Zeis ZE

As mentioned, you can pre buy cine modded of Mr Duclos's site. But with 6K, you won't get far enough.
Especially if you note that the cheapest lens the 50 1.4 is by all reports not a great lens. (get the 50 macro instead if going this route)
You can try buying second hand as recommended, I came across a few "relative" bargains on ebay. Two even pre cine modded. But with 6K Aus import and shipping and Duclos modding, you can just manage a second hand 28, 35, 50 and 85 cine modded and shipped for about 6K I'd say. But the problem (it was mine) is that you still don't have your 21mm - essentially your 35 FOV on the crop. And I just couldn't find anything cheaper than about $1700 these past week. Don't think it exists. And also you'll still need another wider lens such as the Tokina 11-16.
So with Cine mods. Once again your closer to 9K. Non cine mods. You could have the 5 (including 50 macro) for 6k used.

Which brings me to where I arrived...

#5
Zeiss Contax glass

This is a fantastic thread from the past fortnight odd, which I would have KILLED to have been able to read a couple of months ago.
The thread is all well worth reading, I've linked it to Nick Morrisons fantastic post of Contax glass.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?67014-Anyone-using-Scarlet-Zeiss-ZE-Primes/page4

I also highly recommend
Leitax again (great links to fred Miranda related threads tests and the like)

Photo Net
http://photo.net/equipment/contax/shea-lenses
Pebble place again.

SLR lens review
http://slrlensreview.com/web/carl-z...l-zeiss-planar-t-50mm-f14-cy-lens-review.html


Whatever your potential lens choice, you need to research and shop around obviously, Contax needs some strong research, but with Leica, and all the versions and names etc, you really need to research strongly. I loved it TBH, though truly maddening when you can't quite seem to achieve what you want within your budget.


* Please note: The Nikkor option has already been well covered, and I don't have anything to add.
* Also this is obviously not an extensive list of possibilities of course.

NOTE: There are also the lens discussion threads already on RED user with a few good pre existing ones in the Scarlet section.
The best friend tool for newbies on here I think is this link...

http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=004538409993496633550:nmlowi0wk0c

It probably should be the first sticky on the Scarlet section.

Anyhow, hope that saves you and others on a similar budget, with similar aims, a shit load of time mate.

Best Wishes

Lliam