Leica R vs CP 2

[Rob Castiglione]

I have recently put together a prime set - 19mm (2nd version), 28, 35, 50, 90 and 135. It was fun. I found some of the best stuff at Leica shops particularly in europe. The mechanical quality of the lenses is truly excellent. They turn the right way. They have a long focus throw. Terrific image quality and they really DO have that Leica LOOK. I always wondered what that was about - the colour is different from the Zeiss lenses. it seems to me (subjectively) to be more towards a kind of cyan which I really like. Greg you mentioned a Leica R mount - cinemods in Melbourne is making one from original Leica R parts. it is with Red for approval now.

 

[Imran Farouk]

Awesome! Thanks all for all the advice and discussion, spoke to Duclos and apparently the CP2s do breathe, they are rehoused but nothing spectacular about them, so decided to go the Leica route...since the cost of the Leicas, the look, the size and the speed are worth getting them cine-vised and hopefully will hold me over till RED gives their FF35 solution...
With that said...would love to double check with some things...

I'm looking at getting a full set, so, I've found the below serial numbers and was wondering on some of them if there was a significant difference between the serial numbers and worth paying more for that bit extra quality...


Sorted these:
35mm f/1.4 Summilux #3863XXX
50mm f/1.4 Summilux #3387XXX
80mm f/1.4 Summilux #3799XXX

I'm still up in the air between these 100s
100mm f/2.8 APO-Macro-Elmarit-R 3959XXX or 3627XXX not sure whats the difference as there isn't a version one or two but there are a few years difference...also it doesn't seem I can confirm from the rim of the lens top so I'm curious if there is a way to confirm upon arrival?

Found a 24 but is there a difference between this version and the 2000 version?
24mm f/2.8 Elmarit #3837XXX or #3883XXX

Only managed to find one 28
28mm f/2.8 Elmarit #3700XXX - Is this a good enough serial number?

Still looking for, are there particular serial numbers that are definitely better than others? Obviously newer is better but is there a point where its only minor improvements rather than significant?
19mm f/2.8 Elmarit

 

[Dave Blackham]

I think you found your answer reading through the thread.

There is just no comparision between a Leica lens and CP2 opticaly even the early Leica lenses. Leica's Cinevise very well and not expensive to do either. The later lenses are sharper but depends on what your looking for. We have one set of later lenses and building a second set. We also have an early incomplete set of earlier Leica lenses not so contrasy, They also look very nice but do have a softer less contrasty look but with that Leica character which seems to be mostly to do in the out of focus area of the image and that '3D' rendering. The reason we got involved with this was to use older Leica lenses to try to capture some of the style of James Ravilious http://www.jamesravilious.com/ who is believed to have prefered older Leica lenses with out the newer higher contrast coatings.

 

[Imran Farouk]

I think you found your answer reading through the thread.

There is just no comparision between a Leica lens and CP2 opticaly even the early Leica lenses. Leica's Cinevise very well and not expensive to do either. The later lenses are sharper but depends on what your looking for. We have one set of later lenses and building a second set. We also have an early incomplete set of earlier Leica lenses not so contrasy, They also look very nice but do have a softer less contrasty look but with that Leica character which seems to be mostly to do in the out of focus area of the image and that '3D' rendering. The reason we got involved with this was to use older Leica lenses to try to capture some of the style of James Ravilious http://www.jamesravilious.com/ who is believed to have prefered older Leica lenses with out the newer higher contrast coatings.

Most certainly did, I never really enjoyed photographing anything until I got a Leica, I just love the images...I have Zeiss STD Speeds which are cine-vised and I'll be selling those at some point, they just really didn't have that wonderful image. I think the only way for me to ever go PL maybe just to get a set of Summilux-Cs when/if they go FF35/beyond.
I'm rather surprised I haven't seen much RED video with them considering everyones preference to them if they had their pick of still glass...very odd...Do really love the answers here though, they do help give both sides, considering some used ZFs (essentially the CPs) and would've chosen Leica if they were given the choice, crazy...

I am looking for sharpness but I'm wondering if say 2000 is sharper then 1999 or 1998 for example. If its just rather a way for them to keep track of the years they were manufactured then iterations

 

[Dave Blackham]

Most certainly did, I never really enjoyed photographing anything until I got a Leica, I just love the images...I have Zeiss STD Speeds which are cine-vised and I'll be selling those at some point, they just really didn't have that wonderful image. I think the only way for me to ever go PL maybe just to get a set of Summilux-Cs when/if they go FF35/beyond.
I'm rather surprised I haven't seen much RED video with them considering everyones preference to them if they had their pick of still glass...very odd...Do really love the answers here though, they do help give both sides, considering some used ZFs (essentially the CPs) and would've chosen Leica if they were given the choice, crazy...

I am looking for sharpness but I'm wondering if say 2000 is sharper then 1999 or 1998 for example. If its just rather a way for them to keep track of the years they were manufactured then iterations

I think each lens needs to be treated as an individual, My Friend Phil Savioe taught me that and its so true. Put the lens on a projector and youll be able to check out the lens. The R series is no longer made so its difficult to pic the best example from a batch but Leica quality control is very consistlent. I think theres more too it that just sharpness, in Leica for me its about the contrast and 3D rendering they are all plenty sharp enough. More of it seems to be the diference between the older and new lenses about the coating and how the Bokeh is rendered. There is a difference betwween the Summicron and Summilux lenses in this regard, I think the Summicton (f2) examples are slightly sharper than the Summilux but the Summilux (f1.4) has a diferent more organic Bokeh character.

Now please can we stop talking about the blasted things the price of used Leica's is going up again, They have tripled in used price since we started buying them

 

[Greg M]

I am looking for sharpness but I'm wondering if say 2000 is sharper then 1999 or 1998 for example. If its just rather a way for them to keep track of the years they were manufactured then iterations

One of the many things that make Leica special is consistency, as long as you compare the same formula lens you won't see a difference year to year. Personally I would stick with the newer designs though, like the 50mm II and 35mm II, the 80mm are all the same so sn does not matter.
the 50 and 35 saw major noticeable improvements in I vs II, same with 19mm
50mm II Summilux is just as sharp as the Summicron with 2 extra stops...the Summicron is not sharper imo for this specific lens, even wo

 

[Imran Farouk]

I think each lens needs to be treated as an individual, My Friend Phil Savioe taught me that and its so true. Put the lens on a projector and youll be able to check out the lens. The R series is no longer made so its difficult to pic the best example from a batch but Leica quality control is very consistlent. I think theres more too it that just sharpness, in Leica for me its about the contrast and 3D rendering they are all plenty sharp enough. More of it seems to be the diference between the older and new lenses about the coating and how the Bokeh is rendered. There is a difference betwween the Summicron and Summilux lenses in this regard, I think the Summicton (f2) examples are slightly sharper than the Summilux but the Summilux (f1.4) has a diferent more organic Bokeh character.

Now please can we stop talking about the blasted things the price of used Leica's is going up again, They have tripled in used price since we started buying them

I do agree, though I don't have a projector, it's rather I do tend to go on most votes when I make a purchase, which is what I did with my M system and I've been happy so far. It is a ridiculous method to go with but I trust the users on here that they won't accept anything less than the best for their cameras considering the resolution it needs to shoot at. Even more than that, the level of experts here always amazes me, especially within every brand there are so many experts, Leica especially it seems.

I'm always curious when people talk about the Summicron being sharper then the Summilux because my understand is that the Summilux is as sharp as the Summicron when stopped down to F2 and only loses a small level of sharpness in favor of Bokeh for 1.4. The only lens I see practically no loss and just a complete stunner is obviously the Noctilux (total beast. favorite lens EVER, shame I can't shoot an entire film with it only.)

One of the many things that make Leica special is consistency, as long as you compare the same formula lens you won't see a difference year to year. Personally I would stick with the newer designs though, like the 50mm II and 35mm II, the 80mm are all the same so sn does not matter.
the 50 and 35 saw major noticeable improvements in I vs II, same with 19mm

35mm has only one version though with the Summilux it seems according to the http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/35mm_f/1.4_Summilux-R

Or did I miss something?

Do understand though, going to wait till I can find a 50mm V2 (a real one) and then purchase that, mean time will cine-vise and live with my current 50mm which I'm sure is still as good as a Leica, maybe not a V2 but still a Leica hopefully in its characteristics...

EDIT:

Quick question on the 50...

If the serial number was say 3798XXX would that be a version 2 appropriate? It does say version 2 on the site but its a 1997 model and you spoke about the 1998 model, so wondering if the first iteration of the V2 maybe got better coatings when the 1998 iteration came along?

 

[Greg M]

35mm has only one version though with the Summilux it seems according to the http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/35mm_f/1.4_Summilux-R

Or did I miss something?

Do understand though, going to wait till I can find a 50mm V2 (a real one) and then purchase that, mean time will cine-vise and live with my current 50mm which I'm sure is still as good as a Leica, maybe not a V2 but still a Leica hopefully in its characteristics...

EDIT:

Quick question on the 50...

If the serial number was say 3798XXX would that be a version 2 appropriate? It does say version 2 on the site but its a 1997 model and you spoke about the 1998 model, so wondering if the first iteration of the V2 maybe got better coatings when the 1998 iteration came along?

sorry my error, I was thinking M.

regarding 50, thats the crossover period...you have to look at the lens to tell. Is it a 60mm thread on front or 55?

 

[Imran Farouk]

sorry my error, I was thinking M.

regarding 50, thats the crossover period...you have to look at the lens to tell. Is it a 60mm thread on front or 55?

I believe 60 --> http://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/11071882...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_2591wt_1156


No problems, I figured you meant M, I managed to get hold of V2 (this I did get checked with Leica haha, especially since all my leicas are bought in HK) which actually produces some images that I'd say come similar to the Noctilux at 1.4...

Is there anything significantly different between the 24 1998 and 2000 version? I only ask because there seems to be a jump in price between the two

 

[Greg M]

yes, that looks like the new 50, although that price is retarded. regarding the 24, no real difference...the 24 imo is not all that special anyway.

 

[Imran Farouk]

yes, that looks like the new 50, although that price is retarded. regarding the 24, no real difference...the 24 imo is not all that special anyway.

Awesome! Thanks Greg, been a massive help, owe you big time for all this advising haha... :smile:

Yeah, I figured I should get a full set though, 19,24,28,35,50,80,100...

The hardest thing to find so far is a 19mm but yeah the 50 price is crazy but I think the most expensive lens I've bought for the set is the 100mm Macro followed by the 80 then the 35...the 50 at that price would trump the 80...still not sure, would prefer it to be a higher serial number though...

Just looking for a 28mm V2 now...not sure though, found a 1995 version but not sure whether to hold out for a 1997 version or 2002 compared to the 1995... (paranoid now after my fate with that first 50mm haha...)

 

[Greg M]

Awesome! Thanks Greg, been a massive help, owe you big time for all this advising haha... :smile:

Yeah, I figured I should get a full set though, 19,24,28,35,50,80,100...

The hardest thing to find so far is a 19mm but yeah the 50 price is crazy but I think the most expensive lens I've bought for the set is the 100mm Macro followed by the 80 then the 35...the 50 at that price would trump the 80...still not sure, would prefer it to be a higher serial number though...

Just looking for a 28mm V2 now...not sure though, found a 1995 version but not sure whether to hold out for a 1997 version or 2002 compared to the 1995... (paranoid now after my fate with that first 50mm haha...)

have patience with the 50mm...its worth $3500, the 100mm is easy to buy for $1800

 

[Imran Farouk]

have patience with the 50mm...its worth $3500, the 100mm is easy to buy for $1800

Yeah...kind of went a bit over that for the 100mm haha, though it was the last model ever serial number...worried though because I have no clue how to identify the serial number on the 100mm, its not written on any of the pictures like it is the other leicas, on any of the posts...so not sure what to do...

Hopefully the optics are worth it but oh well...we'll see...