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LCD recommendation
- Thread starter Nick Koh
- Start date
Bruce Allen
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n21k, would this other LCD be instead of the 5.6" Red LCD, or in addition to it?
Personally I think the Red LCD represents better value than the current status quo.
I am actually developing my own homebuilt monitor.
In the process of this, I investigated the other monitors on the market and was shocked at how low-resolution even their high-priced panels were.
If you look at my other posts you'll see I'm that mad about 4K, but the idea of spending $1500 so that you can monitor a 4K signal downressed to an 800x480 monitor just seems crazy!
Much better to spend the little bit extra to get the Red one. If you want a second one, I seriously advise you wait. Better panels are out there and either the above companies are going to upgrade their monitor offerings to use them... or I will
Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Personally I think the Red LCD represents better value than the current status quo.
I am actually developing my own homebuilt monitor.
In the process of this, I investigated the other monitors on the market and was shocked at how low-resolution even their high-priced panels were.
If you look at my other posts you'll see I'm that mad about 4K, but the idea of spending $1500 so that you can monitor a 4K signal downressed to an 800x480 monitor just seems crazy!
Much better to spend the little bit extra to get the Red one. If you want a second one, I seriously advise you wait. Better panels are out there and either the above companies are going to upgrade their monitor offerings to use them... or I will
Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
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Martin Ludwig
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ofcourse a Leader LV 5750, which is lower priced as the astro monitor.
In US the leader costs about 10.500 USD -
IMO the leader is the best monitor to have ! http://www.leaderusa.com/web/products/video_monitor/lv5750.htm
In US the leader costs about 10.500 USD -
IMO the leader is the best monitor to have ! http://www.leaderusa.com/web/products/video_monitor/lv5750.htm
Iron Possum
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I was thinking about LCD options too and came to the following conclusions based on all having a waveform monitor:
Panasonic BT-LH80W 7.9"
Transvideo Cinemonitor HD6 6"
Transvideo Starlite Superbright Color 4"
I like the idea of the Cinemonitor as it is smaller than the Panasonic but offers all the same options, though I don't know what the screen resolution is, I know it is 350 Nits brightness.
The Panasonic has a resolution of 800x450, which I don't believe is quite as much as the RED monitor.
The Starlite is an amazing 1000 Nits which looks just brilliant outside from my experience. Unfortunately it only has a composite input at the moment but a HDMI/DVI input may be happening in the near future apparently and I believe it has resolution something like 960x720 but I could be wrong there.
I wonder if the HDMI output on the Red is auto scaling or if the Red LCD viewfinder port can be used to feed another brand of LCD as I believe it is a flavour of DVI too?
Panasonic BT-LH80W 7.9"
Transvideo Cinemonitor HD6 6"
Transvideo Starlite Superbright Color 4"
I like the idea of the Cinemonitor as it is smaller than the Panasonic but offers all the same options, though I don't know what the screen resolution is, I know it is 350 Nits brightness.
The Panasonic has a resolution of 800x450, which I don't believe is quite as much as the RED monitor.
The Starlite is an amazing 1000 Nits which looks just brilliant outside from my experience. Unfortunately it only has a composite input at the moment but a HDMI/DVI input may be happening in the near future apparently and I believe it has resolution something like 960x720 but I could be wrong there.
I wonder if the HDMI output on the Red is auto scaling or if the Red LCD viewfinder port can be used to feed another brand of LCD as I believe it is a flavour of DVI too?
- Thread starter
- #6
I am thinking of having a 8"-9" LCD as an alternative to RED-LCD. Sometimes it would be good to have a 2nd unit but slightly bigger in size to check framing and colors. I have no doubt about RED-LCD but looking for 2nd monitoring when travelling.
Astro or Leader will be great but is too expensive at this stage, IMO.
Astro or Leader will be great but is too expensive at this stage, IMO.
Bruce Allen
Well-known member
This might be OT, but In case anyone is interested why some prices are through the roof, here's my theory behind LCD pricing (written while I am rendering graphics for a trailer we're finishing...):
1. LCD panels are actually pretty cheap. I'd estimate the actual panel in the $2000 Panasonic monitor costs under $250. Similar figure for the Red 5.6" Toshiba 1024x600 panel (the Red's one would be more expensive since it a more high-spec design and more recent, I think).
2. The problem is: getting them to actually display something isn't exactly plug-and-play. To get pixels displaying on your panel you need a controller. This can't be just any controller, but a controller that works with the specific kind of signals your panel wants.
3. Oh yes, even if the controller is compatible with your panel's signal type, you also have to flash the controller's firmware to match the timings of the panel. Or else you get things like offset video, etc.
4. Now, combine this with wanting custom pro features (waveforms, etc)... this means that you can't use an off-the-shelf device. You need custom chips or a fancy arrangement of chips.
So, that's why these things are so expensive. You're paying for custom, non-mass-market electronics. Oh yeah, and the panel is probably pretty out of date because once they've designed custom stuff for a specific panel, they're going to want to get their money back before moving on to a new panel (which entails more custom work).
Can you get cheaper and / or more up-to-date panels or controllers? Yes! But for that you'll have to look to doing clever hacks with consumer-space electronics - and sacrifice "pro" features (waveform, etc). Also, if you go for higher-res panels, you might have to look at things like 15:9 instead of 16:9, etc.
On the bright side, though, with this philosophy I managed to make a 10.6", 1280x768 monitor with a nice metal case, etc which I can sell at a slight profit... for $850
Okay, I admit, it took around 400 hours of research, plus about $2000 in research costs (materials, samples, prototypes, etc). If I had put those hours into freelance design / animation instead, I could have bought an Astro or two
Regarding brightness and daylight readability, that is another whole fascinating topic. But I will be quiet now, since my render has finished.
Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
1. LCD panels are actually pretty cheap. I'd estimate the actual panel in the $2000 Panasonic monitor costs under $250. Similar figure for the Red 5.6" Toshiba 1024x600 panel (the Red's one would be more expensive since it a more high-spec design and more recent, I think).
2. The problem is: getting them to actually display something isn't exactly plug-and-play. To get pixels displaying on your panel you need a controller. This can't be just any controller, but a controller that works with the specific kind of signals your panel wants.
3. Oh yes, even if the controller is compatible with your panel's signal type, you also have to flash the controller's firmware to match the timings of the panel. Or else you get things like offset video, etc.
4. Now, combine this with wanting custom pro features (waveforms, etc)... this means that you can't use an off-the-shelf device. You need custom chips or a fancy arrangement of chips.
So, that's why these things are so expensive. You're paying for custom, non-mass-market electronics. Oh yeah, and the panel is probably pretty out of date because once they've designed custom stuff for a specific panel, they're going to want to get their money back before moving on to a new panel (which entails more custom work).
Can you get cheaper and / or more up-to-date panels or controllers? Yes! But for that you'll have to look to doing clever hacks with consumer-space electronics - and sacrifice "pro" features (waveform, etc). Also, if you go for higher-res panels, you might have to look at things like 15:9 instead of 16:9, etc.
On the bright side, though, with this philosophy I managed to make a 10.6", 1280x768 monitor with a nice metal case, etc which I can sell at a slight profit... for $850
Okay, I admit, it took around 400 hours of research, plus about $2000 in research costs (materials, samples, prototypes, etc). If I had put those hours into freelance design / animation instead, I could have bought an Astro or two
Regarding brightness and daylight readability, that is another whole fascinating topic. But I will be quiet now, since my render has finished.
Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Jaime Vallés
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Bruce,
When I get my RED #791, I just might be interested in buying one of your LCDs. Keep us posted here.
When I get my RED #791, I just might be interested in buying one of your LCDs. Keep us posted here.
Paul Hazlett
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is it battery powered bruce? sounds interesting
Bruce Allen
Well-known member
Yes. Currently with a 12V input. I'm working on voltage regulators, etc to make it work with the power tap from Red.
Sorry to derail the discussion. When my monitor is more ready I'll post a separate topic.
Currently, if you absolutely have to buy a monitor TODAY, the Panasonic seems nice.
On the lower end, you have the Marshall 7" V-R70P-HDSDI
(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/392894-REG/Marshall_VR70PHDSDI_V_R70P_HDSDI_7_Inch_LCD.html).
The Marshall's 800x480 is pretty decent because it has a good scaling chip. I just wish they'd stop making ridiculous claims on their home site about it being "1.2 megapixel" - that's only if you count r, g, b separately!
The really low-budget options (the cheaper Marshalls and the Ikan 8" V-8000HD) don't work because they don't have HDMI or HD-SDI inputs.
I do think that the Red 5.6" seems better than them, though - better integration with the Red, plus higher resolution.
Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
- Thread starter
- #11
Bruce, I'm interested in buying one fo your LCD. Here are my thoughts....
My wish list:
1. 2 sizes, maybe a 5.6" and a 10.6"(which you mentioned on you post #7)
2. V-mount battery (so we don't need to bring different batteries on location)
3. Markers
Keep me posted.
My wish list:
1. 2 sizes, maybe a 5.6" and a 10.6"(which you mentioned on you post #7)
2. V-mount battery (so we don't need to bring different batteries on location)
3. Markers
Keep me posted.
Bruce Allen
Well-known member
For 5.6", get a Red. They use the highest-res panel currently available in that size. For 10.6", maybe I can help you...
Working on that. Would you want the battery mounted to the back of the monitor (for convenience), or have the monitor just accept power from your existing V-mount system (for better weight distribution, etc)
What kind of markers?
Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
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Dont meant to pick nits but... Isn't red also only 12Mpixels if you count R, G and B seperately?
It is a bayer sensor after all...
- Thread starter
- #14
Working on that. Would you want the battery mounted to the back of the monitor (for convenience), or have the monitor just accept power from your existing V-mount system (for better weight distribution, etc)
I think mounting on the back of the monitor will be preferred. At least the monitor can work on standalone if necessary. If accepting power from existing V-mount system off the camera, it might drain the battery faster which may shorten the lifespan of the battery, IMO.
What kind of markers?
Cross-hatch, 235:1, Vista, etc... (don't know if is too much)
I think mounting on the back of the monitor will be preferred. At least the monitor can work on standalone if necessary. If accepting power from existing V-mount system off the camera, it might drain the battery faster which may shorten the lifespan of the battery, IMO.
What kind of markers?
Cross-hatch, 235:1, Vista, etc... (don't know if is too much)
Bruce Allen
Well-known member
Yes. But as far as I'm concerned, a 1920x1080 monitor is 2 megapixels, not 6... should I just give up and market my 1280x768 monitor as "3 megapixels"? Naah, it just seems dishonest.
Thanks, duly noted!
Again, that would require a custom electronics set up. Which more than doubles the price of your monitor.
There are 2 options to do it cheaply:
1. use guidelines generated in Red or an external device
2. make a physical overlay
Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
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Charles Angus
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Physical overlay sounds so much better than "put tape on it"...
Heh.
Heh.
Bruce Allen
Well-known member
I Bloom
Well-known member
I think you are mostly wrong. A Bayer sensor has more resolving power than each of its individual color components because we are able predict the other components of a given pixel to a high accuracy during the demosaicing process. Demosaicing can't be compared to uprezzing each channel because we have a pretty good idea of the luminance of any pixel regardless of what channel it is filtered to. So in truth, I believe the Mysterium sensor can be said to resolve at 4K even though there are slight inaccuracies technically speaking. The audience will see a very sharp image and you can pull better keys off of it than film and that is all that matters.
IBloom
No, he's right. Identifying the quantity of pixels on the sensor has nothing to do with the resulting picture. If a sensor has 10Mpixels, it doesn't matter what the demosaic process results in, it's still a 10Mpixel sensor.
Besides, predicting the data between sensor sites is not the same as having the real data. Incorrectness of the predicted data is especially evident when capturing high-frequency patterns such as those found on many articles of clothing. Moire, you know.