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Lav mic comparison

Michael Panfeld

Michael Panfeld

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Hi: notwithstanding form factor/size differences, how would you rate the following lavs in terms of overall sound quality and in ability to mix with a boom or shotgun mic (obviously lavs and boom/shotguns are different animals to begin with). They all are being used in tv/film by pros. All are uber expensive, something talent doesn't realize when they nonchalently attempt to un-mike themselves (grrrhhh!).

Sanken COS-11
DPA 4071
Sennheiser MKE2
Countryman B6
Sonotrim

Thanks
 
Tram mics need adding to that list, they match they well to Sennheiser MKH series mics.
 
yes Trams.

I have no clue and probably couldnt tell the diff myself, but I do pay attention to what the recordist pro's use and more often then any other brand I see them using Tram.
 
@Elsi: Thanks, but this is purely about sound quality. Money is irrelevant in my question.

@Erich and Dave: Sonotrim is Tram. The Sonotrim is the Tram lav model specifically designed for film dialog.
 
There are a number of reasons for Trams. One is they are easy to rig due to the form factor the another is they match Sennheiser MKH and also Schoeps well too, Ive never had one fail in heat cold very wet or humidity, quite neutral in character, I've never had any reason to question head room or noise so couldnt even tell you what the figures are except its not an issue. I realise this doesnt answer the questions about the list of mics above. Some like Sanken COS-11 though and some Sonotrims but there are not as in as wide use.
 
I use mkh 416, dpa 4017 shotgun and dpa 4071 lavs. cannot compare shotguns to lavs. I find myself using the 416 whenever I can because of its bite. 4017 when I want neutral, and the dpa 4071 lavs when I need to. the 4071 is a very good lav mic, and when I can I use it wired. Works fine, but shotgun always sounds better. Only used countryman for music, prefer the dpa's.
 
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I own the B6, the Sonotrim, and the COS-11. I've also used the Tram and the Lectrosonics M-150.

The skinny:

1. The B6 is valuable primarily for its incredibly small size. It sounds very good, but is so darn easy to hide that in practice it can actually sound better than the other lavs, because it is often easier to place "in plain view." We actually like to mount the B6 in an actress's hair (if she has dark hair), and, up on top, you almost never have any worries about ruined takes from clothing noise.

2. The COS-11 is much larger than the B6, and sounds a little bit better to my ears, but it is a bit harder to hide, as well.

3. The Sonotrim sounds flat-out amazing, MUCH better than the Tram. BUT, it is also harder to place vis-a-vis the B6 or COS-11. This mic, well-placed, cuts incredibly well with the Schoeps CMC6/5/441 hyper cardioid microphones. In a quiet setting, I prefer the Schoeps booms. In a not so quite setting, the Sonotrim is definitely the better choice. In general, I try to lav every actor every time. . . just in case.

Of course, YMMV.

Stephen
 
Thats a really useful link, thanks.

Im not so sure I agree a Sonotrim sounds better than a Tram TR50 just different. They are not the same mic though but clearly similar.

Soren makes a good point. Lav's should not be regarded as a principle mic. A super cardiod or cardiod mic is always going to be prefered when it can be place in an optimal position. If it can resort to a LAV which is for 95% of the time always in the wrong position plus all the other issues that go with it such as clothing noise, wind and so on. Sennheiser MKH40/50/60 and Schoeps CMIT and CCM mics rule here.
 
Dave, it is my understanding that lavs come in different pick up patterns as well. If so, is there a commonly used pattern? When would you use something else?
 
Lav's are mostly Omni directional. We have about 40 and all but 2 are Omni. The other two are cardioid and I cant even remember when I last used them. If I wanted a small cardioid mic Id use a Schoeps CCM4.

Omni's are placed in terms of proximity ie the closer it is to the source the more it favours the source as oppose to a directional mic by pointing at it. So for our needs Omni's are generally fine.

The Cardioids tend to be useful if you want to hide a small mic some were (not body worn) or some times for stage shows or attached to a musical instrument. They can be more of a problem body worn if they inadvertently point at some undesired sound if moving around.

A couple of points on mic placement, the first rule of mic placement is it is more important what a mic is NOT looking at rather than what it IS looking at. This affects all directional mics interms of placement. If you point it away from the offending noise you can generally make good the desired sound ie reject the sound you don't want.

You can create a boundary mic from an Omni LAV by placing it on a flat surface and it becomes hemispherical in polar pattern, you can find accesory kits to do this but Bluetack (UK stuff don't know what this is called in the US) or gaffer tape have worked fine for years.

Form an Omni mic (it isn't directional) proximity is important, it should matter too much which way its oriented, if body worn on the chest not too low so as to loose the voice and not to high or it may get to nasal. Also placed in hats, or in hair can work well too. They can be available in a selection of colours, Black, white, Flesh tone, Brown, Blonde from some manufacturers. Tram used to do colour selection but I don't know about other manufacturers.

Visit Make up to get some Toupee tape or Lingerie tape to mount them. Don't ever use cheep Gaffer tape to attach to them as the glue comes off and its a royal pain to get of again.
 
Dave Blackham said:
Im not so sure I agree a Sonotrim sounds better than a Tram TR50 just different. They are not the same mic though but clearly similar.
Click to expand...
They're sourced from an almost identical pickup, but the Tram's are designed to have a deliberate high-frequency peak to cut through clothing; the Sonotrims are made to be much flatter. For me, I'd rather have the HF peak, because to me, it works with most of the actors I deal with (particularly when the lavs are well-hidden); the argument against them from some mixers is that the Trams are too "edgy." I think this can be EQ'd out by the re-recording mixer, but it's a subjective call.

I would also recommend the Oscar Sound Tech lavs as being very good matches for Trams at a much lower price. The Oscar Sound Tech mikes are available with or without the treble peak, so you have the choice of going with a "Tram" sound or a "Sonotrim" sound.

Countryman B6's are mandatory for situations where you have very skimpy wardrobe (especially tight-fitting T-shirts or tanktops), but be wary of their sensitivity to wind and breath pops.

Cardioid lavs are a specialty mike I would only use for very noisy interview situations where I could clip the lavs on the outside. They're also much better at rejecting feedback in PA situations. Countryman's new B2D is a champ for this purpose, but it's not cheap.

I would note that sometimes lavs have to be the principle mike when there's nowhere else to go, particularly "wide and tight" 2- or 3-camera situations. There are entire movies and TV shows out there that are shot 80% with wireless lavs these days; Tony Scott's Unstoppable is a good example. In a perfect world, absolutely, booms are the best way to go, but it's not always practical. To me, post is all about having choices, and being able to hand in a decent boom track and iso lavs for a missed line here or there at least helps the post crew avoid the need for ADR.
 
What Marc said.

Stephen
 
How do you know they used Lavs most if the time in unstoppable? Did you work on it, or can you point me to the article? Do you happen to know what Lavs they used?
 
Kim Frank said:
How do you know they used Lavs most if the time in unstoppable? Did you work on it, or can you point me to the article? Do you happen to know what Lavs they used?
Click to expand...
Very widely reported in the trades. It might have even been in a past issue of American Cinematographer -- a lot of the movie was shot multi-camera, and/or confining spaces inside or on a train, so there was simply no place to put the boom. What blew my mind is that they got usable dialog at all inside the main locomotive, given the diesel engine in there.

Remember, it's not just what specific lavs they used -- it's how they were used, and how the film was mixed (by Bill Kaplan). Think of the microphone merely as a lens.
 
After doing a lot of comparison listening on the web, I recently did a test where I matched a COS-11 with a Sennheiser MKH60 and I feel it was a very fine match actually. To my ears, the Sanken is definitely the most boom mic sounding lav I've heard. I really like it, but I can't say I've put it through it's paces in a variety of environments. I was testing only in interior location.

Of course, though I have to say there was some clothing noise on the wireless track now and then. Perhaps a better sound person could have eliminated that.

And on the subject... if you're thinking lower budget... I thought this idea was a little bit brilliant and a great use of modern technology FOR INDIES ONLY who are used to limitations... obviously you can't mix levels etc... (I don't want to be flamed for respecting this idea): http://www.danmccomb.com/posts/678/zoom-h1-as-wireless-lav-4x-cheaper/
 
Its interesting to hear your views. The important thing is to listen, not make an emotional decision on hearsay or what ever. COS-11's are very good, no question. I don't find them as easy to rig as a Tram which is my only view but they do sound very neutral and are a great mic.

The other thing to consider is different voices are suited to some mic's better than others. So where one mic sounds great on one person it wont be so great on another. One female presenter we work with doesn't suit a tram but does suit a Sony ECM77. Some times a variety of mic's is good to have.

I think the link is great BTW
 
I just checked out some comparisons of the Oscar Tech to the tram. Remarkably similar sound - and very inexpensive comparatively to all lavs. Definitely seems like a bargain option... combined with some H1's that's some pretty cheap remote lav system for indies.

I still prefer the COS-11 lav over any other I've used or heard, but it is perhaps a little more difficult to hide and manipulate.
 
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