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Laser Projection

Steve Johnson

Steve Johnson

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It's been a foregone conclusion for years. Nothing new. Every big player in the HDTV and projector market has laser-based designs in their portfolios and Mitsubishi released their LaserVue projection HDTVs some time ago while several projector makers have released laser-based projectors in the past few years. The quality is there though there are some issues with high-resolution laser-displays but the physical size requirements for the technology (which are bulky projection TVs when you get right down to it) is the primary reason why you haven't seen them brought to market since they can't really compete with the smaller footprint of LED/LCD displays.
 
Mitsubishi has patents for laser projection as well. They initially demoed a DLP rear-projection HDTV using lasers about 5 or 6 years ago at CES. Never released a product. Patents are a funny thing. When it comes to most high tech type stuff, you can patent a specific design or way to do something, but an underlying concept typically remains open. Lasers are an established light source used for a great many things. Apple or even RED are not the first to seek patents for something that uses lasers, even projection, and they won't be the last.

I can't wait to see what RED comes up with! I really don't care if it uses lasers or not... If it gives us pristine 4K images and can be priced in-line with other high-end home theater projectors, that's a win. I'm hoping it will also be good enough to use for color work.
 
Problem with all projectors is you have to be in a blacked out room. Your screen has to be very bright which means it has to be almost black. This is fine for about 5% of home theaters I've seen.

Projection is a non-starter for the vast majority of the market. Rear-projection can get darker but still not as dark as an LCD or Plasma and you still have focus and geometry issues in rear-projection which destroys sharpness and usability as a UI display. Not to mention rear-projection normally has terrible viewing angles.

For my uses I don't want to sit in a black room while watching movies or TV during most of the day and I don't have the room for two viewing areas. And I'm what I would consider one of the more demanding customers when it comes to displays. So I'm not surprised that Lasers haven't caught on. Who wants milky washed out blacks or who wants to black out their living room? If a 4k Projector was under $2k I would consider getting one just for when I want to move my flatscreen out of the way and go wall sized cinema but otherwise I'm sticking with a flat-screen.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Mitsubishi has patents for laser projection as well. They initially demoed a DLP rear-projection HDTV using lasers about 5 or 6 years ago at CES. Never released a product. Patents are a funny thing. When it comes to most high tech type stuff, you can patent a specific design or way to do something, but an underlying concept typically remains open. Lasers are an established light source used for a great many things. Apple or even RED are not the first to seek patents for something that uses lasers, even projection, and they won't be the last.

I can't wait to see what RED comes up with! I really don't care if it uses lasers or not... If it gives us pristine 4K images and can be priced in-line with other high-end home theater projectors, that's a win. I'm hoping it will also be good enough to use for color work.
Click to expand...

I am with you Jeff on the hoping it will be good enough to use for color work. I think if you look at RED from acquisition using RED One, Epic, Scarlet, post production - third parties, through to distribution with REDRay then these are all professional tools. Jim said that RED are a professional company and it would make total sense for their projector to be color accurate. If e REDRay does DCP (which they are saying it will) then it makes sense to have color accurately on the projector. It will be a great addition to view dailies, editing with, sound mixing with, color correction and viewing of final delivery.
 
I'm eager for one as well, though personally just as much as professionally. My limited experience with them this NAB at both the Red and Sony booths -- which has been far superior to both any recent home viewing OR theater experience -- totally sold me. Besides, however fast technology is moving, it's going to take a while before a decent sized 4k display to be sub $10,000. If Red's projector gets us to 4k < $10,000 first, I'm all for it!

Anthony
 
This is more exciting to me than the new camera systems. I really hope these can come to market in a year or less. If it's priced under 25K and is color accurate, delivering enough brightness and 4K Resolution put me down for one ASAP! I've quietly hoped RED would come to market with their own line of projectors for quite some time now and I know they'll deliver on the specs/price ratio. I've been contemplating a 2K Barco for some time now and I'd love for a less expensive and hopefully smaller alternative to arise.
 
Jim, buy the rights to SED!!! I'm sure you can make your money back many times over and still beat the competition in terms of product application. Projectors are good, grade 1 8k monitors are even better ;)
 
I've been looking forward to a really good reasonably priced laser projector (and eyepiece !) for some time.
The advantages of laser projection are a much larger colour gambit, more exact colours, brighter image with increased contrast, fewer parts , sharper pictures ,
no costly lens, no expensive lamp replacement down the line.
You can see where Kodak have been going with this at
http://avscience.com/2010/12/kodak-laser-projector-presentation/

It should be better and more affordable, so hopefully Red will not charge us all too much for it when it arrives in the RED Shop : )

Peter Versey
UK camera operator/DP
 
Just a follow up on this:

I was not able to attend NAB this year, and have heard much talk of this projector, red dragon, mission control...

Despite the early stage, does anybody have some more specifics regarding this 4K laser projector? What does RED mean by "home projector"? does this mean a theater projector will be coming somewhere along the line?

I remember in the early days Red spoke of releasing a 4k projector, but that project was put on the back burner for a while. I am very excited about the reboot of this idea!

I have a feeling that Red will soon be a household name, and not just among tech geeks :)
 
Ivan

No specs on the projector. It was just announced that they where working on 4K laser projector. That's it.

Speculation - priceless

For everything else, there's MasterCard! :-)
 
Steve Johnson said:
I am with you Jeff on the hoping it will be good enough to use for color work. I think if you look at RED from acquisition using RED One, Epic, Scarlet, post production - third parties, through to distribution with REDRay then these are all professional tools. Jim said that RED are a professional company and it would make total sense for their projector to be color accurate. If e REDRay does DCP (which they are saying it will) then it makes sense to have color accurately on the projector. It will be a great addition to view dailies, editing with, sound mixing with, color correction and viewing of final delivery.
Click to expand...

RedRay and DCP are two completely different things. The only common aspect of both being an image delivery method.
 
jake blackstone said:
RedRay and DCP are two completely different things. The only common aspect of both being an image delivery method.
Click to expand...

Jake

I think what I meant was that if REDRay plays DCP files.

Steve
 
Steve Johnson said:
Ivan

No specs on the projector. It was just announced that they where working on 4K laser projector. That's it.

Speculation - priceless

For everything else, there's MasterCard! :-)
Click to expand...

I'd do with even some priceless speculation right now :)
 
Ivan

Well for what it's worth, I'll still go for the fact that Jim has stated that RED is a professional company, so I'll bet that anything shot on RED (either a R1, Epic or Scarlet, will look great through this projector. I would guess that it might be high end home user / low end professional. But I think Red knows that if they release something that is affordable, yet professional enough to Color grade on, then added that we can watch all our 5K footage / final films through a projector - they will sell a bucket load. Hell, I'd even put one in the edit bay, one in the sound mixing room and another..... Oh I'd take 4/5 straight away.

But hey....its mindless speculation :-)
 
Steve,

For what its worth I tend to agree! But you know... what Red is doing is very interesting. I am sure Jim has his sights set on big things. Sure it started with One camera. But now we are getting Red Studios, Red Ranch, Red Ray (both home and pro) home laser projector... and lastly, Red just produced their first real short movie...

There are interesting things in the works in Orange County, I'll tell you that much :)

Ivan
 
Steve Johnson said:
Jake

I think what I meant was that if REDRay plays DCP files.

Steve
Click to expand...

I think the entire concept behind RED RAY stands or falls with the fact if it plays DCPs or not.
Its a fact that theaters will not invest in two concurrent player systems. DCP is the defacto standart right now and so both the studios and the theaters will use DCP in the first place.
So the the only way to spread a new format to the theaters is by making a player that plays DCPs and the new format (RED RAY or whatever it will be called in the end) and does all this at an unbeatable price level.
Having a matching projector along makes just sense, but for theaters thats a totally different beast than a home system.

Anyhow, if RED RAY PRO does not play DCPs it'll be a niche product. If it plays DCPs, it will take the theaters by storm, for sure.

Axel
 
I was under the impression that Red Ray Pro not only plays DCP but also allows one to author DCP using the output to utilize something like the 4K Laser projector to proof the work. This I am very excited about as it will allow small independents to author their films in DCP and play them on the primary projectors in local theatres instead of having to premier their films on the screen door laden digitals typically available for local releases. Making this available at our local film Co-op will be able to make this service available to our members at an affordable price. We also have an Epic coming, can't wait!
 
Axel Mertes said:
I think the entire concept behind RED RAY stands or falls with the fact if it plays DCPs or not.
Its a fact that theaters will not invest in two concurrent player systems. DCP is the defacto standart right now and so both the studios and the theaters will use DCP in the first place.
So the the only way to spread a new format to the theaters is by making a player that plays DCPs and the new format (RED RAY or whatever it will be called in the end) and does all this at an unbeatable price level.
Having a matching projector along makes just sense, but for theaters thats a totally different beast than a home system.

Anyhow, if RED RAY PRO does not play DCPs it'll be a niche product. If it plays DCPs, it will take the theaters by storm, for sure.
Click to expand...

Alex,

I would agree and I am sure it will play DCP. It is interesting to read on the Red website the features for the RedRay:

"REDRAY™, the first choice for bringing RED into every home. Representing the ultimate in home theater playback and offering RGB HD, 2K and 4K playback to projector or panel through its consumer friendly HDMI connectors, REDRAY™ supports CF card and SSD media, USB-2, Firewire 800 and e-SATA. With 7.1 channel 24-bit audio and on-screen menu overlay, REDRAY™ will be the standard for digital cinema delivery in every environment."

That last statement would seem to indicate that this is just the start - "will be the standard for digital cinema delivery in every environment" - so I will go to say that I predict that RedRay will do DCP - at least for the Pro version.

As for the laser projection, I think if Red are going to these lengths to produce a 4K Laser Projector, then it will be the first version for "home cinema" - with maybe a cross over into post houses as a cost effective alternative to a Barco / Christie. My biggest hope is that it allows for color accurate grading so we can use it in a Red post workflow. Of course being able to view your hourlies on a Red 4K projector would be awesome, and viewing your final output on it would be great two. If it allows for the color accurate grading, then I would buy at least 4 - one for the editing room, grading room, sound mixing room and viewing theatre.

Guess we'll find out sometime in the future...
 
Steve Johnson said:
That last statement would seem to indicate that this is just the start - "will be the standard for digital cinema delivery in every environment" - so I will go to say that I predict that RedRay will do DCP - at least for the Pro version.
Click to expand...

I think the idea of RED RAY is to replace DCP.
 
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