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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

L'Aigle Exoskeleton VS Flowcine Serene ?

Sabyasachi Patra said:
I remember Garett Brown, the inventor of Steadicam speaking at NAB '14 and he said that earlier one had to learn an entire new way of walking and moving. Now with the Movi type of gimbals one needs to unlearn that. For exact words one need to check the NAB videos.

When a new technology comes, the practitioners of the old tech can get tensed. It is human nature. Doubts creep up whether one tech is going to replace the other. The steadicam operators who are at the top of their game and are self assured won't have a problem. For others, the juvenile game of whose is bigger or better starts.

Steadicam and 3 axis gimbals are going to stay side by side and things will further evolve. They both have a place in the current scheme of things. Having said that we also see many poor examples from 3 axis gimbals from people. The reason is not the 3 axis gimbal technology but poor choice of composition. When we see good steadicam moves from top movies, we see that the framing is top notch. That is missing when first time guys start using Movi or any other three axis gimbal. It is another matter that some people just think of running with the Movi/Ronin etc.

There are many equipment salesmen here. Rather than giving in to hype, it is better to try the equipment and see if it works. As a customer you are right as you know your requirement. No equipment salesman can visualise your typical needs. Some will say easy rig will always pass through doors. We all know that in some locations it is not possible. I was shooting in an old fort, and the doors were too narrow and low for this. Same thing can also happen with the exoskeleton and the width may hamper. We don't know yet. Lets wait and watch.
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well said.

Just to clear out , when making a statement about size you are making it, in consideration of an average person height and a normal path way door in both height and width. Of cource you can be 6,2 - 6,5 and try and go through a door that is 6,7 so wearing an easyrig with max extension arm will crash on the top of the door for sure.

Iam refering to doorways that are normal, 6,7f height x 2,6 ft wide, and an average person that from 5.6 to 6 ft tall. bending your knees for a couple of steps and you are through , thats all it takes.

there were many occasions specially with the WK vest that I could not get through a normal doorway like this if I wasnt very extra careful and hit the back mount arm and arm many times. It was much easier with Tiffen vests , they were narrower, and no problem.

The point is that sometimes you have to pull a few tricks depending on the occasion.

if you have limitations like stated above, like knee injuries or back spine problems you shouldn't be wearing a body mounted system in the first place, specially with out being trained, as the effort that your body puts in trying to adjust and train the correct muscles , is quite a big one, and that you dont discover it in 5 minutes trials. Also body to body is different and some will feel comfortable in vests and mounts that others dont.

I have demoed with the WK, serene and Maxima 30 and Amira carrying about 16-17kg . The WK vest was solid rock , but at the same time it hearted my lower spine after 10 minutes, and no matter how well I adjusted it did that all the time. Mind you that is not the exact steadicam vest they are producing. Now I have the new Easyrig Gimbal vest.

As this was a new thing for Johan we gave our input and its solid rock, and at the same time its very comfortable.That doesnt mean that because I had a problem with the WK that is the case with everyone else. Nor that because I like the new Easyrig gimbal vest that means its better than the WK. Its my preference for my body.

Iam the one that keeps saying, there are pros and cons in all system, and getting trained is the factor that you get to over pass the cons, and take advantage of the pros.

I am considering my self being objective both in my posts and my privet answers to customers or just people that ask for advise. I never said to anyone , forget about steadicam, this is the way to go.

what we did is we created something different for the +5000 easy riggers that exist on this planet. And it works pretty well. We keep evolving this with the new products.

One can choose according to his taste. Test and then find out the case.

Regards
 
I haven't used exoskeletons, but I do own an easyrig 3 cinema (400N & 600N), and I just added a Serene arm during the last job (all handheld, Alexa ~40lbs), and I really loved the added versatility the Serene brought to my operating with an Easyrig. Like anything else, it's a tool, not perfect for every situation. However, my vote would be for a Serene + Easyrig if only because it gives you more options for camera work (i.e. not solely relegated to gimbal work). If you are really only considering this purchase for use with a gimbal, obviously you will need to test both and see what gives you the best results based on your needs. But if you do a lot of handheld work as well (non-gimbal), I think the Easyrig & Serene will give you a more useful setup.

Cheers,
Clint
 
A. Clint Litton said:
I haven't used exoskeletons, but I do own an easyrig 3 cinema (400N & 600N), and I just added a Serene arm during the last job (all handheld, Alexa ~40lbs), and I really loved the added versatility the Serene brought to my operating with an Easyrig. Like anything else, it's a tool, not perfect for every situation. However, my vote would be for a Serene + Easyrig if only because it gives you more options for camera work (i.e. not solely relegated to gimbal work). If you are really only considering this purchase for use with a gimbal, obviously you will need to test both and see what gives you the best results based on your needs. But if you do a lot of handheld work as well (non-gimbal), I think the Easyrig & Serene will give you a more useful setup.

Cheers,
Clint
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I am curious why you think an exoskeleton would be limited to gimbal work. In the same way that an easy rig can be used without a gimbal, couldn't an exo be used that way as well?
 
"PS. No you wont get 90% of what a professional operator can do. Sorry I dont buy that. after 14 years of operating I probably reached 80% my self and have plenty more to learn.. Beautiful shots for your indi work yes, but go work with a director and pull his goals as a professional is another story.."
Sorry Constatine, not buying your conclusion. Beautiful shots for my indi work is all I'm looking for, not too many of us need to shoot for Michael Bay.
Aloha
A
 
A. Clint Litton said:
I haven't used exoskeletons, but I do own an easyrig 3 cinema (400N & 600N), and I just added a Serene arm during the last job (all handheld, Alexa ~40lbs), and I really loved the added versatility the Serene brought to my operating with an Easyrig. Like anything else, it's a tool, not perfect for every situation. However, my vote would be for a Serene + Easyrig if only because it gives you more options for camera work (i.e. not solely relegated to gimbal work). If you are really only considering this purchase for use with a gimbal, obviously you will need to test both and see what gives you the best results based on your needs. But if you do a lot of handheld work as well (non-gimbal), I think the Easyrig & Serene will give you a more useful setup.

Cheers,
Clint
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I respectfully disagree. I can't think of a single shot you could get with an Easyrig set-up that you couldn't get with an Exoskeleton rig. I can, however, think of many shots that you could get using an Exo rig that would be difficult or impossible with an Easyrig.
 
Poi Boy said:
"PS. No you wont get 90% of what a professional operator can do. Sorry I dont buy that. after 14 years of operating I probably reached 80% my self and have plenty more to learn.. Beautiful shots for your indi work yes, but go work with a director and pull his goals as a professional is another story.."
Sorry Constatine, not buying your conclusion. Beautiful shots for my indi work is all I'm looking for, not too many of us need to shoot for Michael Bay.
Aloha
A
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It perfectly fine Poi Boy, be happy with your gear your work and what you are looking for. But there are many others that work in 3rd party productions. They dont have to shoot for Michael bay or Cameron, they shoot everyday for any kind of budget productions, yet they need to deliver their abilities with out compromising no matter if its a low budget or a high budget, tv show, music video, of big screen holy- wood movie. We make tools that everyone can use.no matter who he works for, If you dont like then again its totally cool. thats why there are other products. But learn that you and your work and the way you operate is not the only thing existing on this planet, there are others who seem to care more about expertise or mastering a profession and make their living out of this , working for 3Rd parties and not their own productions. Its a very different story.

have a nice day. Aloha to you too:coolgleamA:

ps - sorry I just realised your name is Alex. Didnt notice this earlier.
 
"But learn that you and your work and the way you operate is not the only thing existing on this planet, there are others who seem to care more about expertise or mastering a profession and make their living out of this , working for 3d parties and not their own productions. Its a very different story."
Thank you for the condescending remark Constantine, I will strive to care more about mastering my skills in the new year. :-)
Aloha
A
 
Poi Boy said:
"But learn that you and your work and the way you operate is not the only thing existing on this planet, there are others who seem to care more about expertise or mastering a profession and make their living out of this , working for 3d parties and not their own productions. Its a very different story."
Thank you for the condescending remark Constantine, I will strive to care more about mastering my skills in the new year. :-)
Aloha
A
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Iam sure you pretty well know Iam talking about steadicam related work and not cinematography in general. That was the start of the discussion. You seem to have a problem with steadicam operators and you seem to disagree with the way they have evolved in that business. not very much respect about their work either. You are in title to think what you like but dont turn this thread into an argument.

take care Alex and by the way, you never stop learning until the day you die. its not a bad thing.
 
No problem with steadycam ops whatsoever or how they have evolved or their work and yes, still learning everyday here and you are right, it is a very good thing.
Aloha
A
 
Constantine - you do have a way of saying "You can think what you want, but I know I am right!" lol
 
just in case you ve missed it, here is Daniel, with his Serene + Ronin operating in narrow paths in and out doorways in one single take.

No SFX and green screen adding doorways or narrow paths was added on this video LOL.

http://vimeo.com/109253439

pass - reduser.

regards :emote_popcorn:
 
William Kamp said:
Ugh. this thread isn't helpful at all. Another wasted reading.
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I believe both have distribution in LA, so I thik the best way is to test them your self? 16x9 is the flowcine distributor and Iam sure they have demo rigs. its the best way to go and find out whats best for you.

if you need technical explanations or have any questions , you can go ahead and I will answer them either here on in pm.

Kind regards
 
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