L'Aigle Exoskeleton VS Flowcine Serene ?

[bevan goldswain]

Anyone used both of these that could comment on the pros and cons of each system?

I was wondering if there were any movement limitations on the Serene+easyrig setup.
With the L'Aigle exoskeleton I wonder how well it takes the weight off when you are at max or min height.

 

[Poi Boy]

Pretty sure no one has used both, I'm betting that L'aigle is going to be a better solution as far as hi low range, we will know soon. Price comparison however is no contest.
Aloha
A

 

[Nils Ruinet]

I haven't tried any exoskeleton so far, but I own a Serene + Easyrig and am extremely happy with it.
I like the fact that I can keep my hands free, and am not convinced by the added width on the exoskeletons, which can be an issue in tight spaces.
But having not tried any of these I won't judge them. All I can say is that the Serene is great, works very well and is very versatile

 

[bevan goldswain]

Hi Nils

Are you able to lift the Movi high enough to get an eye level shot using the easyrig + serene?
What easy rig arm do you have?

 

[Nook Kim]

Ordered both. I believe they have different purposes.

 

[Nils Ruinet]

Hi Nils

Are you able to lift the Movi high enough to get an eye level shot using the easyrig + serene?
What easy rig arm do you have?

Hi Bevan,
I have the easyrig 3 Cinema 400N.
Yes, reaching eye level is no problem with the Serene, without the need to reverse the Movi (which you couldn't do anyway with the Serene, given the way it works)
And you can even get higher than that if you adjust the easyrig to sit higher on the vest (but if you adjust it too high, you will get in trouble when trying to pass doors, obviously, which is non an issue when adjusted in a standard way)
If you pull the easyrig's string down to the max, you should be able to get near ground level too.

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

Hi Bevan,
I have the easyrig 3 Cinema 400N.
Yes, reaching eye level is no problem with the Serene, without the need to reverse the Movi (which you couldn't do anyway with the Serene, given the way it works)
And you can even get higher than that if you adjust the easyrig to sit higher on the vest (but if you adjust it too high, you will get in trouble when trying to pass doors, obviously, which is non an issue when adjusted in a standard way)
If you pull the easyrig's string down to the max, you should be able to get near ground level too.

Nils is correct. I personally adjust the back arm at the highest possible position , and when I go through doors I just bend my knees a little and go through, then carry on normal way. this is very easily done and with out any effort. and if I need the extra height is there to use.

kind regards

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Yes,

But is exactly because some of the limitation with the easirig and any like it, that those like myself with serious Knee injuries, should stay away form any such rig system if working a lot in close environments and have shots in need to be crossing form room to room...

My reason to avoid the easyrig and the likes are more then just this one of course... But going thru doorways stands out as the more obvious for my knee injury.

I am going with Hand Held Gimbal system only, supported by Exoskeleton system, and by some of the very cool shit I see Flowcine is coming out with to assist render my shots as stabilized as possible and assist most importantly to eliminate andy kind of human cause bumps...

Plus I look for solutions that can be also used on other gear when off my hands and any easing such rigs won't do it, not for me or the way I work.

SO I strongly suggest you take a try and give hard look at all available options and then wait it out few more weeks to try out or at list see test reviews of the Exoskeleton type support rigs, and Flowcine's accessories paired together to give you the ultimate stabilization system.

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

Yes,

But is exactly because some of the limitation with the easirig and any like it, that those like myself with serious Knee injuries, should stay away form any such rig system if working a lot in close environments and have shots in need to be crossing form room to room...

My reason to avoid the easyrig and the likes are more then just this one of course... But going thru doorways stands out as the more obvious for my knee injury.

I am going with Hand Held Gimbal system only, supported by Exoskeleton system, and by some of the very cool shit I see Flowcine is coming out with to assist render my shots as stabilized as possible and assist most importantly to eliminate andy kind of human cause bumps...

Plus I look for solutions that can be also used on other gear when off my hands and any easing such rigs won't do it, not for me or the way I work.

SO I strongly suggest you take a try and give hard look at all available options and then wait it out few more weeks to try out or at list see test reviews of the Exoskeleton type support rigs, and Flowcine's accessories paired together to give you the ultimate stabilization system.

We were always suggesting test and trail before buy. Thats why we have more than 15 different distributors around the world and do our best for them for People to be able to test near by. i know 16X9 does a lot of demos for example in USA.

some other things to consider, since I ve seen from close everything in all latests shows. I wouldn't worry about easyrig going through doors at all. Look at Daniels footage with the Serene and the Ronin. Daniel is a big guy, and the footage was done in very narrow doorways and in normal height inside a studio, its very clear, how easy he moves around with it and do sharp corners with no space and narrow pathways. Now lets leave it here for now. Unless someone has footage to prove otherwise, its not wise to make comments about equipment 99,9% including the GB moderators haven't actually seen or tested.

lets see the deal and shots of the other side and then Im all to discuss. Until then, I would keep more quiet, and believe me when I say , I follow history, evolution, and tools of every single manufacturer for more than 25 years. Boy I have stories to tell...

Kind regards

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Yes I surely give you that,

And that is why I say also TEST... But for me I talk from personal experiences and my suggestions come from those, doorways, with something standing tall over your head is just one small part of the issue for me, on some sets and on outdoors shooting, jungles, forests, and any such location with tree branches low, such rigs as the easyrig are absolutely out of my consideration, as I surely am not going to bend down at every single obstacle above my head...

Again, personal preferences and needs...

All else should and I know do always take what I say in consideration on how I say it and in regards to why I say it, my opinions are always UN bias and truthful to the knowledge based on experience and personal needs and preferences which need to be taken in account when choosing a piece of equipment...

Starting January at last I will come put with my new site and the long awaited series of Video reviews of the gear I use, and there it will be very specific and comprehensively explained the why and how such choices were made...

I also have 25+ years ion the business, well actually closer to 30 now... And have seen it absolutely all, not used it, but seen it in use... And have made mistakes about making choices based on just listening to others or seen a piece of gear in use, then when I went to use it I found out the hard way how different it is from seen to trying...

So yeah...

TEST... TEST... TEST... Before making a buying decision... :Or make sure that the opinion you read about that piece of gear and the review or video review you seen about that piece of gear, was made by someone that used it in the same way you would use it and that matches your overall needs, as well as physical attributes... )

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

My lips are sealed from now on about this subject. I have a lot to say , but I wont.

I will only say that all these devises to be operated , you need to be an expert. They all relay on steadicam technology and share steadicam techniques. If you are no steadicam operator and before you get your unit in your hands, practice, and practice,and practice again, and then go out there and earn your living from it, you cannot in any way able to judge this kind of equipment as it should.

Thats why I never made a single comment about lighting, dop ing, and camera technology here. Because its not my expertise .

until final model released , tested, and tested again in real life environment and from experienced steadicam operators, I think we should really keep quiet, about it, because the systems ( and its more than one ) arent out there yet nor tested yet in reality , from ANYONE .

many examples I can tell you about top equipment brands that took a lot of time to get the product and evolve it so its there 100%.
Exovest is one,its made by Tiffen under Criss fawcett design, had to go through changes and feedback to get there. 5,5K of vest we are talking here.
G50-70 ARMS same story, probs appeared, feedback, fixes, and redesigned, 20k of arms we are talking here. This is jusT 2 of the very many examples.

Our product is shiping, we are in the 400 bunch, we have improve the weak points, even shipped free upgrades to earlier customers,

It takes time to master it as well and make the best out of it. Daniel , Nils have already said that many times, and many of the 100s of our customers have done so as well not RUsers.

my 2 cents.

kind regards

 

[Poi Boy]

I thought lips were sealed, LOL. One thing for sure, very exciting times for us small production folks.
Aloha
A

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

I thought lips were sealed, LOL. One thing for sure, very exciting times for us small production folks.
Aloha
A

for the other product, not OURS. I can talk for OUR productS for hours LOL.

Regards

 

[Poi Boy]

Omg, I'm a bit over the only "a dedicated steady cam op can have an opinion" thing. just isn't so Constantine and steady cam ops seem to love to perpetuate this theme. I know this will get me in trouble but I'm a bit tired of hearing it. Obviously a steady cam op is going to have better skills from mega hours of practice; let's call that 100% ability. A motivated cinematographer can easily get to 90% in short order and achieve beautiful shots. May not be the best possible but can be pretty damn good. Can we agree on this ?
A

 

[Ketch Rossi]

As an independent Filmmaker, over the past 30 years I have worked hard to learn it all... Or at list as much as I possibly could, touching and trying just about every piece of gear that I could which had something to do with Filmmaking, this is how I choose what I liked it and what not, what was good for me and what not, then went about making Films with it, and literally done entire projects solo, utilizing every single tool myself...

So, while it is important to differentiate from a given personal opinion about a particular piece of gear and that of an expert, I clearly always make distinctions the two, but always fill very confident about giving an opinion about something which I have knowledge of, little or a lot.

I am the classical Ace of al trades and Master of None... And I am absolutely ok with it... At list till one of the Trades will reveal as the prominent one... Which I doubt it will happen since I have been a multitasker since birth...

I have used several Steady cams, as I really liked what they did in image capturing, again been a image stabilization free that I am, and I wanted to like it and learned but I din't, this is why you never seen me use one, but I did hire one several times, now things have been changing a lot, and new tools have been made available and I have been using them, and making opinions, this is what is all about, making an opinion based on experience, either small or big, short or long, it was an experience and an opinion of such can be shared and does not one need to be an Expert at anything in order to be allowed to share an honest opinion, which might hold valid points.

This is a forum were I have been sharing such opinions for 7+ years now, and I know that my opinions have helped a considerable amount of Filmmakers, because they have said so themselves and this is why I continue to share my opinions coming form the results of all my test-shoots made over the years, from those published projects and from those that haven't been, which give me the experience I continue to gain about gear and their use.

This such experiences is what I count on to make final decision when is time to make my most First Motion Picture next year... And I give such opinions in consideration that some one else out there, actually in here might be asking and or need my opinion for the very same reason, so I give with open heart.

I am UNBIASED always... I don't manufacture gear, I don't represent any one that does, even so I ma now sponsored by a very large number of manufacturers I don't talk good about their products out of convenience, but because I myself was the one that chose their gear in the first place amongst all other available, so I do have an honest reason to push their products vs others, and I do so because they are better... At list in my opinion based on my experience with their use...

Now, for some of the gear not out yet, if I give an opinion about those, rest assure that it is because of a good reason, I hold over 40 NDA's as of today... And I am privileged to have Gear at my doorsteps for my use and test well before it goes to market, and get to see how they evolve in their life from Prototype to final production model, were I also take great pride when some of the final changes get made thanks to my given opinion about their use.

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

ok Ketch , I will wait for your reviews, and the awesome footage that you can produce with your choice or sponsored equipment.it sounds very interesting.

Until then....:emote_hippie:..peace

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

Omg, I'm a bit over the only "a dedicated steady cam op can have an opinion" thing. just isn't so Constantine and steady cam ops seem to love to perpetuate this theme. I know this will get me in trouble but I'm a bit tired of hearing it. Obviously a steady cam op is going to have better skills from mega hours of practice; let's call that 100% ability. A motivated cinematographer can easily get to 90% in short order and achieve beautiful shots. May not be the best possible but can be pretty damn good. Can we agree on this ?
A

Poi Boi , what I stated is , the people who do this as a profession get to know the equipment better than someone who just wants something for the occasional shot .
they know what to look for and how to judge different equipment around this area.

I know how to fix my car , but I always trust the mechanic when he tells me his opinion.

No you are not in trouble at all. You are free to test any of the many options, and they wiil be more options coming, and you will choose what you like best and whats easier for you and you nature of work. I dont understand how that conflicts with what I have said?

on the other hand we dont run a group buy, we dont try to push people with bargains, push them into deals versus time, what we do is we created a product tested it redesigned it,and we are selling it successfully so far, all around the world and we have it available for testing. So how can that be pressure in any way to you and your choice? I dont understand.

this is not an argument. this thread is about who has tested both and his opinion .

its different tools and they all have pros and cons. You choose what you like and what suits you.

PS. No you wont get 90% of what a professional operator can do. Sorry I dont buy that. after 14 years of operating I probably reached 80% my self and have plenty more to learn.. Beautiful shots for your indi work yes, but go work with a director and pull his goals as a professional is another story..

kind regards

 

[Ketch Rossi]

ok Ketch , I will wait for your reviews, and the awesome footage that you can produce with your choice or sponsored equipment.it sounds very interesting.

Until then....:emote_hippie:..peace

...

 

[Sabyasachi Patra]

Omg, I'm a bit over the only "a dedicated steady cam op can have an opinion" thing. just isn't so Constantine and steady cam ops seem to love to perpetuate this theme. I know this will get me in trouble but I'm a bit tired of hearing it. Obviously a steady cam op is going to have better skills from mega hours of practice; let's call that 100% ability. A motivated cinematographer can easily get to 90% in short order and achieve beautiful shots. May not be the best possible but can be pretty damn good. Can we agree on this ?
A

I remember Garett Brown, the inventor of Steadicam speaking at NAB '14 and he said that earlier one had to learn an entire new way of walking and moving. Now with the Movi type of gimbals one needs to unlearn that. For exact words one need to check the NAB videos.

When a new technology comes, the practitioners of the old tech can get tensed. It is human nature. Doubts creep up whether one tech is going to replace the other. The steadicam operators who are at the top of their game and are self assured won't have a problem. For others, the juvenile game of whose is bigger or better starts.

Steadicam and 3 axis gimbals are going to stay side by side and things will further evolve. They both have a place in the current scheme of things. Having said that we also see many poor examples from 3 axis gimbals from people. The reason is not the 3 axis gimbal technology but poor choice of composition. When we see good steadicam moves from top movies, we see that the framing is top notch. That is missing when first time guys start using Movi or any other three axis gimbal. It is another matter that some people just think of running with the Movi/Ronin etc.

Rather than giving in to hype, it is better to try the equipment and see if it works. As a customer you are right as you know your requirement. No equipment salesman can visualise your typical needs. Some will say easy rig will always pass through doors. We all know that in some locations it is not possible. I was shooting in an old fort, and the doors were too narrow and low for this. Same thing can also happen with the exoskeleton and the width may hamper. We don't know yet. Lets wait and watch.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

As an independent Filmmaker, over the past 30 years I have worked hard to learn it all... Or at list as much as I possibly could, touching and trying just about every piece of gear that I could which had something to do with Filmmaking, this is how I choose what I liked it and what not, what was good for me and what not, then went about making Films with it, and literally done entire projects solo, utilizing every single tool myself...

So, while it is important to differentiate from a given personal opinion about a particular piece of gear and that of an expert, I clearly always make distinctions the two, but always fill very confident about giving an opinion about something which I have knowledge of, little or a lot.

I am the classical Ace of al trades and Master of None... And I am absolutely ok with it... At list till one of the Trades will reveal as the prominent one... Which I doubt it will happen since I have been a multitasker since birth...

I have used several Steady cams, as I really liked what they did in image capturing, again been a image stabilization free that I am, and I wanted to like it and learned but I din't, this is why you never seen me use one, but I did hire one several times, now things have been changing a lot, and new tools have been made available and I have been using them, and making opinions, this is what is all about, making an opinion based on experience, either small or big, short or long, it was an experience and an opinion of such can be shared and does not one need to be an Expert at anything in order to be allowed to share an honest opinion, which might hold valid points.

This is a forum were I have been sharing such opinions for 7+ years now, and I know that my opinions have helped a considerable amount of Filmmakers, because they have said so themselves and this is why I continue to share my opinions coming form the results of all my test-shoots made over the years, from those published projects and from those that haven't been, which give me the experience I continue to gain about gear and their use.

This such experiences is what I count on to make final decision when is time to make my most First Motion Picture next year... And I give such opinions in consideration that some one else out there, actually in here might be asking and or need my opinion for the very same reason, so I give with open heart.

I am UNBIASED always... I don't manufacture gear, I don't represent any one that does, even so I ma now sponsored by a very large number of manufacturers I don't talk good about their products out of convenience, but because I myself was the one that chose their gear in the first place amongst all other available, so I do have an honest reason to push their products vs others, and I do so because they are better... At list in my opinion based on my experience with their use...

Now, for some of the gear not out yet, if I give an opinion about those, rest assure that it is because of a good reason, I hold over 40 NDA's as of today... And I am privileged to have Gear at my doorsteps for my use and test well before it goes to market, and get to see how they evolve in their life from Prototype to final production model, were I also take great pride when some of the final changes get made thanks to my given opinion about their use.

Good post, Ketch. Thanks!