L O W - L I G H T - S H O O T I N G

[Awon Mikeo]

I have a film that I will shoot in low light conditions, most of these conditions will be at night, I am able to light my main actors & the immediate space there in, but will not be able to light the backgrounds, such as buildings, trees, street scape at night, I need that background detail, is there a way of getting clean & little noise shooting at night with a RED camera? I want detail in the background, I am thinking of using a RED - There are a few new cameras out, but I have enjoyed using the RED - How far can I push the ISO with the NEAT pluggin before it gets too noisy, blocky or soft. Many Thanks

 

[Julio Quintana]

Red is amazing in several ways, but pulling clean detail out of an unlit cityscape is not one of Red's strengths. For something like that you probably want a Sony F55, or if you're really dark a Sony A7S (it hurts me to write that).

 

[Ulf Krentz]

What Julio said, in case you should insist to shoot RED make sure you´ll at least use the LowLight OLPF.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

The budget?

 

[Christoffer Glans]

You could push it pretty far (further than people realize as I've demonstrated in some tests somewhere in here), but any filmmaking that features shooting a movie at night without the ability to light a scene is a bit too low budget I'm afraid. Rent a few 2Ks and some generators and use those to light up the background and then push the rest with ISO and NEAT video.

Also, you MUST use the LLO OLPF as the others have said, no other choice in this situation. Remember though that if you have a keylight and you expose the actor according to that, you might underexpose too much of the background. Lower the keylight so that the balance between the actor and background gets a little closer to each other.

Also, use super low compression for these scenes. You DON'T want compression artifacts to show up once you've NEAT videoed those shots.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

The cheapest way is to find locations that offer some decent existing lighting. what you have to avoid is framing shots with backgrounds that drop off too far into darkness. Red is not a see in the dark camera.

 

[Satsuki Murashige]

If you want detail in the deep background, you'll need to expose for it and light the foreground to match, Michael Mann style. Use the fastest lenses you can get your hands on, longer focal lengths to bring the background closer, and find bright backgrounds to frame against. 'Heat' was shot on 500 ASA filmstock with Panavision High Speed anamorphic lenses (T1.1 for the 50mm), so it should be easier with a digital camera with a base 800 ISO. Just don't expect it to be clean and noise-free.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

The budget?

Bump!

 

[Gerrit Piechowski]

I made the experience that it's always best to shoot at native ISO320 (in case you're shooting Dragon for example) and bump up the ISO in post + turn on D.E.B. Save the RMD and transfer it to all your other files.

Even if it looks way under-exposed on the screen, you won't regret it!

 

[PatrickFaith]

If the camera is locked off (i.e. on a tripod), there are a lot of tricks to use during compositing to completely remove the grain (basically create a alpha channel with the foreground subject masked off, then "blackshade" that with blur based on the between frame noise difference). The more the camera moves, the more roto work is necessary. In any case I would put into the budget some roto work on any of the super dark shots that have a very bright foreground.

 

[Awon Mikeo]

Thanks Julio for your reply, would the weapon red be better than the scarlet w in low light then?

 

[Awon Mikeo]

Hi Sabovic, its a low budget, what did you have in mind

 

[Awon Mikeo]

Thanks Christoffer, for the advice, especially about the lower compression. Do you have anything at night i.e. someone in a car or cafe at night with the street scape or city scape in the back, which shows good detail or is this asking to much for the camera? Do you have any tests like this or do you know of any footage which you can direct me to?

 

[Kenneth C Merrill]

Hey Awon, here is a video shot at night in a city. I'm not a huge fan of how they graded it, and I think they could have solved some of the noise issues with a little more work in post. But it probably gives you a good idea of what comes straight out of the camera when you push it to the extreme. Not sure what ISO they rated at, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was something like 2000.

https://vimeo.com/158918096

 

[Sabovic Adis]

Hi Sabovic, its a low budget, what did you have in mind

I meant, having budget for a Weapon, but not for lighting...

Either up the budget and go with enough light, or rearange it and go with some low-light stronger camera - DSLR style, You know!

"Salvaging" bad footage in post, instead of doing real post stuf, is real PITA, and it's gonna cost You as much, if not more, as if You had it done right in the first place. :biggrin:

 

[Awon Mikeo]

Thanks for that Kenneth, Cool clip, yes it would be good to see what ISO they used, which Red camera too.

 

[Awon Mikeo]

Thanks Sabovic. so true I just dont want to spend time in post to rotor, on exposure & on noise reduction, while the time can be used on the edit & colour grading, Im just a bit over DSLR is there another low light cinema 4K plus option? is the weapon much better in low light than scarlet w? what are the options?

 

[Kenneth C Merrill]

Thanks Sabovic. so true I just dont want to spend time in post to rotor, on exposure & on noise reduction, while the time can be used on the edit & colour grading, Im just a bit over DSLR is there another low light cinema 4K plus option? is the weapon much better in low light than scarlet w? what are the options?

The best low light camera right now is probably the Panasonic Varicam LT. It has two "native" ISO's: 800 and 5000. From what I've seen, at 5000 it is crazy clean.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

Thanks Sabovic. so true I just dont want to spend time in post to rotor, on exposure & on noise reduction, while the time can be used on the edit & colour grading, Im just a bit over DSLR is there another low light cinema 4K plus option? is the weapon much better in low light than scarlet w? what are the options?

What Kennet C. Merrill said (if You hate to go A7 :rofl!

Weapon and Scarlett Weapon are dynamically the same, but Weapon, having bigger max. resolution and lower compression ratios might have beter results, noisewise, than Scarlett when downsized to 4K, 2K or FULL HD.

Try to push for more light, that's essential! :biggrin:

 

[Awon Mikeo]

Thanks Sabovic, Christoffer, Julio & Kenneth, Do you think Red will come up with a dual ISO update or new sensor for low light situations in the near future? It has to be the next thing right? considering the other cameras that provide that ability, & why not, your paying 20,000-25,000 to set up a camera kit. the sony a7ii can do it in low light for 4,000 the panasonic LT can for the same basic price as have been disgust . honestly shooting in low light is more important than 8K or 10k for me, I would love that feature on a RED Camera, it would make it perfect camera. I really want to shot this low light feature film with a red but I cant light up a block of city sky scrapers with a light rigg. I love the skin tone of the RED image but I can't use it at night, or havent seen any footage that can, would love to see some good night footage.