"Knowing"...

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I've been having that experience a lot lately... Out of focus projectors due to just sloppy adjustments by the "projectionist", who is in many cases just some hap-hazardly trained high school or college kid these days. It seems most of the bigger theater companies have their own maintenance crews in charge of setting focus and actually maintaining projectors, setting up, moving them, etc.. If a projector drifts out of focus or whatnot, it doesn't get fixed until enough people say something to warrant calling out one of the maintenance people from their central office or until the projector gets it's regular check-up every 60 to 90 days or whatever.

OTOH, all the digital projections I've seen lately have been razor sharp and properly focused. 2K projections, even in 3D have been sharp. Coraline and Monsters vs. Aliens were amazing. Can't wait for 4K projection to go mainstream with 4K delivered content!

 

[Jeff Hitchcock]

Well, they will still need to focus the projector... :wink5:

But much less often. Digital projectors you only focus once on install and leave it that way. Film projectors must be refocused every time you change lenses which means you have to refocus every time you show a film in a different format.

 

[David Rasberry]

When I was running an art theater at a local museum, we focused using binoculars so we could see the film grain. Sometimes things look better just a little out of focus and this is especially true of digital projectors, a very slight off focus shift eliminates the screen door effect of the fixed pixel boundaries without really hurting the image quality in many cases.

 

[Chris Swinbanks]

But much less often. Digital projectors you only focus once on install and leave it that way. Film projectors must be refocused every time you change lenses which means you have to refocus every time you show a film in a different format.

Yes, however its not that hard to do... twiddle the knob back and forth (or press the buttons if its electronic focus), and put your glasses on if you have them... takes a few seconds to get it right. If focus is off, complain loudly to the theatre manager.... the picture (as in, movie) is the only reason you're there in the first place!

Sometimes things look better just a little out of focus and this is especially true of digital projectors, a very slight off focus shift eliminates the screen door effect of the fixed pixel boundaries without really hurting the image quality in many cases.

I have daily responsibility for 2 digital projection review rooms, and I can see what you're saying for theatrical projection, but am afraid I can't agree... focussing on the pixels is like focussing on the grain, unless you know its sharp you aren't presenting the image in its best light. I have a special pair of longer distance glasses to check focus and watch screenings, without them it can be just out of focus and I wouldn't know the difference, but the artists (younger with better eyesight) certainly would! I think you'd have to sit in the first couple of rows in a mainstream theatre to notice the flyscreen effect (I may be wrong, I never go down the front in commercial theatres!!)

Interesting aside, Dolby's 2 x projector Imax 3D digital slightly offsets the image from the 2 projectors to achieve the same thing (kill the flyscreen).

 

[Mazen Hashem]

i filmed 2 shorts on RED and i'm proud of the result
THX RED TEAM

 

[bernd katzmarczyk]

whow!

whow!

saw the movie yesterday and what can I say? I´m more than amazed. the digital hd projection was dazzling. cleaner than everything else I´ve seen before in cinema. not hd clean but brilliant clean without grain. a fantastic look on such a big screen. an entire new cinematic experience.
35 has one foot in the grave. quite deep in the grave.:couch:

 

[Emmanuel Cambier]

Just got off the screening, great movie, one of the first post-9/11 movie, amazing picture.
Jim and Red and all of us can be really proud.

 

[Robert Niessner]

Finally I have seen Knowing - saw it as a 2k digital projection. I liked the story, but not the end with the kids. The German synchro might have salvaged some dialogue and acting performance problems (which have been criticized here). But I will not watch any more digital projection until they get 4k projectors. 2k projection is inferior to film projection (I'd never thought I would say that) - I was sitting right in the middle of the theatre, perfect viewing distance - and I could see the individual pixels and the flynet. Especially titles looked really bad, blocky and unsharp - it destroyed the whole experience for me.

 

[Kenn Michael]

Are you sure it was definitely 2K projection?

The 2K projection I've seen has been superior to film projection. Can't see pixels. Titles are smooth and clean and the image is exceptionally detailed.

 

[bernd katzmarczyk]

Finally I have seen Knowing - saw it as a 2k digital projection. I liked the story, but not the end with the kids. The German synchro might have salvaged some dialogue and acting performance problems (which have been criticized here). But I will not watch any more digital projection until they get 4k projectors. 2k projection is inferior to film projection (I'd never thought I would say that) - I was sitting right in the middle of the theatre, perfect viewing distance - and I could see the individual pixels and the flynet. Especially titles looked really bad, blocky and unsharp - it destroyed the whole experience for me.

MHM, sound weird. I just saw a hd projection and it was great, even better than the usual 35mm projections.

 

[oldphart]

Are you sure it was definitely 2K projection?

The 2K projection I've seen has been superior to film projection. Can't see pixels. Titles are smooth and clean and the image is exceptionally detailed.

There are several of us who have complained about visible pixels in new 2k cinemas with big screens. It could be individual differences in vision, or it could be the way a certain cinema is set up.

4k for teh win! :thumbup:

 

[Ryan Sims]

Fly Screen

Fly Screen

On a DLP 2K you can see the "fly screen" effect sometimes. But most of the time it is in static white text (as in opening credits) or a full white screen shot.
So I do tend to notice it the first few seconds of a film, then it just disappears. But for what you gain, it's worth it. A 2K DLP projected movie is much sharper and cleaner than a "normal' film print showing in a multiplex.

I'm not sure the "fly screen" effect is any better on the Sony 4K projectors from the few times I've seen it.
Did a search and found this article: http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/static/files/mkt/digitalcinema/Why_4K_WP_Final.pdf
Interesting that Sony mentions "Che" and the RED one here. Sorry, if this has been posted before.

 

[Robert Niessner]

Are you sure it was definitely 2K projection?

The 2K projection I've seen has been superior to film projection. Can't see pixels. Titles are smooth and clean and the image is exceptionally detailed.

Well it certainly depends on your viewing distance.
I did some research and found news from 2006 saying that the Cineplexx I attended is using a Christie CP2000. Well I heard rumours, that the Christie has been a second hand device and that it broke soon. So maybe they exchanged the projector to a cheaper 720p device.

I have tried to watch the 1080p Knowing trailer on my 24" LCD from only about 10 centimeters away to simulate the same viewing distance - but on my LCD it definately looks sharper than in the Cineplexx.

 

[Michel Hafner]

I have no problem seeing pixels on 2K DLPs from distances I always sit in cinemas. 1-2 screen heights away. High frequency content like credits or graphics show regularly pixels and aliasing artifacts. If they don't the picture is quite soft.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

I saw "Knowing" last night at "Artis International" one of Viennese "vintage" cinemas with original version.

It was a film projection (2K).

No stuttering, no motion artifacts, or what else,...

Everything went pretty good.

It was actually my first seeing RED1 material at a film print out.

Before that I saw PJ "Crossing the Line" at 4K digital projection in Amsterdam years ago.

After all, someone could discuss a post-production decision about CC or VFX only.

I was a proud RED1 owner last night.

Below are some of the projection pictures that I took as a document.

"Knowing" at "Artis International", Vienna, May 9, 2009.

"Knowing" at "Artis International", Vienna, May 9, 2009.

"Knowing" at "Artis International", Vienna, May 9, 2009.

"Knowing" at "Artis International", Vienna, May 9, 2009.

 

[Chris Swinbanks]

sanjin's theatre photos

sanjin's theatre photos

The first thing I noticed from those photo's is the curved corners of the projection gate mask.... never seen that in a commercial cinema before, only in our own projection/review room before it was replaced with a Barco. Its a bit harder to "pull the gate"...

2nd thing I noticed... what the hell are you doing with a camera in a theatre and posting about it!!! :rofl:... some like to live dangerously..

btw, glad you enjoyed the results on film! Although I guess the (2k) is now a bit irrelevent, as I'd have no idea how many generations from the original DI neg your print would have been.. could have been 1, or 3.... (DI neg - IP - Dupe Neg - Print)

cheers
Chris

 

[Brian Chapman]

2nd thing I noticed... what the hell are you doing with a camera in a theatre and posting about it!!! :rofl:... some like to live dangerously..

----

At least it's for an educational purpose amongst professionals. But on a lighter note, even the pictures of the screen look good.

That should be the new Red trademark.

Even the in-theatre CAM videos of RED films look better than our competition.

 

[Stacey Spears]

Knowing is being released on DVD and Blu-ray on 6/2.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

My big complaint with digital is the black balance. There's a theater here in Seattle that has a subpar DLP whose black level is a good 2 'ticks' above noticeable.

 

[Michel Hafner]

My big complaint with digital is the black balance. There's a theater here in Seattle that has a subpar DLP whose black level is a good 2 'ticks' above noticeable.

All digital projectors for cinemas and home and film prints as well have black levels that are noticeably not black but gray with dark enough material. Only CRT projectors can do genuine blacks with dark material. They have limits too as soon as bright image parts are mixed into the black (washout due to low ANSI contrast).