Kino Flo vs Home Depot fixture

[Linda Barzini]

Besides some structural stuff (barndoors, c-stand connection), is there a difference between a 4 x 4 foot Kino Flo and a Home Deport 4 x 4 foot T8 connection? Assume you put Kino Flo or Movietone T8 4 foot bulbs in both.

 

[Justin McAleece]

It's my understanding that the ballast in the KINO versions will get more output from the same lamps. I've never tested it though.

 

[Frank Glencairn]

The Home Depot version is probably less magenta :devil:

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

The big difference, which has not been mentioned above, is the ballast frequency. Kino Flos work at an extremely high (but unknown to me) pulse frequency, whereas your normal HD fixture will almost certainly have a low-frequency ballast. Why do you care? Two words:

Flicker and banding.

Flicker can a problem under certain circumstances with a lower frequency ballast, and you will ALMOST CERTAINLY see this if you do any off speed shooting.

Banding is an even more insidious problem that you will often experience in older buildings (why, I do not know) using fluorescent fixtures. It manifests itself with a slow area of wide under illuminated bands that crawl up the screen on your shots.

Unfortunately, these sorts of issues are often not much evident until you get into post and are looking at your ruined footage.

Stephen

 

[Ryan Sims]

The banding problem most likely happens in older buildings because they still have old magnetic ballasts. The newer electronic ballast are somewhat better, but not even close to Kino Flos ballasts range of camera shutter settings.

Sound - Kino Flos emit little to no sound. Home-Depot lights can give off all types of noise. You just don't realize it in our noise polluted world. But as often the case - your boom mic ends up being super close to the lights and will pick up the sound of the Home-Depot fixtures.

Going to LEDs solves the sound issue - but introduces a new set of issues like color (CRI) and flicker.

 

[Ryan Sims]

Quick test method on a RED to look for banding: Record a test clip at your desired settings (or just replay your last take).
Now - replay the clip from the camera and use your RED touch screen to scroll quickly back and forth through the clip.

Banding will often go unnoticeable on the live feed or normal playback speeds, but as soon as you fast forward a clip - it will stick out if it's an issue.

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

I agree with you, Ryan. . . that quick scrolling really makes the banding obvious. That's actually when I first noticed it on one film.

And, so long as you are using Brandon Fowler's KoraLED LED strips/mats, you're never going to get flicker. . . and that CRI is EXTRAORDINARY!

Stephen

 

[Nick Gardner]

I have used 4' fixtures from home depot on several films. Modern ballast don't flicker until you get out of the normal range. Of course if you are doing serious slow mo, you won't be using flourotubes anyway.

Nick

 

[Troy Dunn-Higgins]

Yes, you can absolutely use a standard T8 fixture.

With that being said, I would highly recommend replacing the included ballast with an OSRAM QTP T8HO unit. This is similar to the ballast used in Kino Flo fixtures and will ensure banding-free footage at any shutter speed, while also enabling you to run Kino Flo True Match bulbs at their rated current. It costs approximately $18 and is available with 1-10V dimming if required.

While the Home Depot ballasts are electronic and do typically switch at frequencies in excess of 25KHz, they almost universally have poor input filtering. This results in a significant amount of AC ripple on the output, thereby negating the advantage of the high switching frequency.

EDIT: Thanks, Stephen! I had not known about KoraLED and have just ordered a reel of daylight modules. :biggrin:

 

[David Baumber]

I've used and bought sets of Vistabeam, Diva, 4 bank and single tube Kino's for over 10 years and not once have they let me down. They are literally the best film kit investment I ever made. They're out weekly as rental hire. And as mentioned, pulse and banding - easy to see why you pay for Kino as the ballasts are great. We also shoot Phantom Flex 4K and high frame rates on Helium - Kino's still very handy.

 

[Ulf Krentz]

snip

while also enabling you to run Kino Flo True Match bulbs at their rated current. It costs approximately $18 and is available with 1-10V dimming if required.

Do they make a 75W version? I used these units with "color proof" flouros and they work very well (both the tubes and the ballasts), but they are rated at 58W.

 

[JB Earl]

think about just buying a few Quasar Science LED tubes. Easy to rig and mount, won't break like Flo tubes. You can get a 4' single color tube for $75. No messing around with ballasts. Mount them individually or as banks.

 

[Troy Dunn-Higgins]

Do they make a 75W version? I used these units with "color proof" flouros and they work very well (both the tubes and the ballasts), but they are rated at 58W.

Yes, they manufacture a number of ballasts capable of supplying 75W. The True Match T8s are actually standard 58W tubes, which Kino Flo is marketing as "75W' due to the fact that all of their linear ballasts are HO (High Output) and overdrive the tubes. Running them at 58W will reduce light output but it should not affect color rendering.

Incidentally, Universal and Advance also manufacture rather excellent HO ballasts which are free of banding at all shutter speeds. Most ballasts with a 100-277V input range will actually be identical in this regard, as the wider input range forces manufacturers to employ larger input filtering capacitors.

 

[Zack Birlew]

I've recently put together some Home Depot fixtures with some baby plates drilled in and I'm using daylight LED bulbs from Phillips. It seems to be a great source of light lol! However, like others have said, even with LEDs I wouldn't trust it for high speed and making flaps out of cardboard and black wrap is a little funky but, hey, it's easy to put together and great for the price! From what I can tell, even with the Phillips LEDs, I don't think the DIY fixtures are as bright as the Kinoflos and you definitely don't have the bank control like on those as I would have to remove bulbs or switch to a smaller two bulb fixture (I have both). If you can afford Kinoflos then go for those for ease of use but if you're on a tight budget, get a drill and some baby plates and have fun putting together a DIY fixture of your own.

 

[Matt W.]

Difference in brightness

Difference in brightness

I think kino flos run Home Depot bulbs at 40w same as any other ballast...

But they run kino Flo bulbs at 72w or something... they're not that much brighter, but better color by far.

You can use kino Flo bulbs in a Home Depot fixture... but they'll run at 40w and have good color but be quite dim.

Efficiency and color quality are of course trade offs with fluorescent lights, and I think you will sacrifice one or the other using an off-brand DIY solution.

And the convenience of kino flos is MUCH better. Building a Home Depot fixture will take a day or two to get it half decent even if you're handy, and if your day rate is even as low as $1000/day you should have just gotten a used kino flo. :/

I used to love kinos, now I prefer LEDs. But for convenience more than light quality. I don't shoot anymore and if I were to go out and shoot I don't want to lift a heavy box of 4x4s unless I have a crew, in which case I'd be renting the right tool, not building the next best thing.

 

[Troy Dunn-Higgins]

Kino Flo ballasts will actually overdrive any standard 4FT T12 to 75W, as they are High Output ballasts. Most of their T12 fixtures include switches, enabling you to toggle between STD (Standard) and HO (High Output) current modes.

 

[Matt W.]

Kino Flo ballasts will actually overdrive any standard 4FT T12 to 75W, as they are High Output ballasts. Most of their T12 fixtures include switches, enabling you to toggle between STD (Standard) and HO (High Output) current modes.

Very interesting... good to know! I guess we were overdriving the standard lights without realizing it.