Jim Arthurs
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Understood and agreed!
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Kino Flo Purchase; Diva-Lite 400 or 4-Bank Selects?
- Thread starter Rick Darge
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Understood and agreed!
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Rick Darge
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So it's the same quality of light with the flolights compared to the kinos?
It was always my understanding that the reason why Kino was so pricey was because of their mojo and ability to remove any and all green spike within the light? Are we really just paying for the name and the R&D ?
It was always my understanding that the reason why Kino was so pricey was because of their mojo and ability to remove any and all green spike within the light? Are we really just paying for the name and the R&D ?
Stephen Williams
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Rick Darge
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I was talking more flolight to Kino..
What makes a Kino a Kino? I hear all these DIY fluoros, but do they really hold up? I made a DIY light, and the light looked like sh*t
What makes a Kino a Kino? I hear all these DIY fluoros, but do they really hold up? I made a DIY light, and the light looked like sh*t
Peter Richardson
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I agree that the quality of light the Divas put out is a disappointing. Having done a 'round the world trip (china, tibet, india, london, copenhagen, prague, etc.) with two Universal Diva 400's in a flight case, however, I can say that it is tough to beat their portability. And having the universal ballast (do the selects have this?) is huge when you are traveling internationally.
Peter
Peter
Richard Andrewski
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Coming portable fixtures from Cool Lights
Coming portable fixtures from Cool Lights
Hi All,
My ears were burning so I thought I'd see what's going on over here. Been a while because I've been very busy here in China. Here's something else I've been up to. I hesitate to call this a clone because although the looks are somewhat similar there are vast improvements in this light over the Diva. Foremost improvement is weight. Diva is listed as 14lbs without tubes. My unit is 8lbs. with tubes! We've been listening to our current customers that say they want lighter lights. Here's a few other facts about the unit:
1). We're using a special corrugated polycarbonate plastic that's designed for use in building atriums and can withstand impacts of hail very well. Hit this stuff with a hammer and its possible to dent it a bit but the hammer bounces off. The version I'm using is black and opaque though (we'll save the transparent model for a special very limited edition later ;-). Anyway, its a hardshell case more akin to a studio light.
2). Edge protection extrusions around the plastic are aluminum and are tougher.
3). Ballasts are not in an obtrusive hump on the back but rather hidden behind the reflector.
4). No need for a heavy plate backing since the plastic is so tough and also since we are using a special extruded thick aluminum reflector that can't be bent easily so its the real skeleton of this unit.
5). We'll have a non-dimming version that's less expensive for those that think (like me) that dimming is not necessary and even undesirable because of color temp changes.
6). Aluminum end caps to protect the reflectors, sockets and tubes. The thing folds up into a nice neat package thats really at home tucked under your arm while walking with it.
7). A PVC extruded gasket that runs the length of the barndoor at the join between the fixture and barndoor. Not only keeps light from leaking out but also acts as a quick release grip for attachments like eggcrates in frames.
I'm enclosing some pictures here that I took of the 2nd revision fixture that I already posted on DVXUser a while back:
The revision we're working on now has incorporated a few comments from people we've gotten opinions from. Including wider, overlapping barndoors and black endcaps rather than silver. There's a stand adapter being worked on right now that connects to the lolipop and snakes around to keep the light's center of gravity over the light stand. Just a bit more and we can lock off and start manufacturing. Also need to come up with a carrying case for it, a bulb carrying case, and a stand thats sturdy enough but also small enough to fit in the case with the light. Damn--seems like theres always one more thing to do before you can call it a real solution!
Coming portable fixtures from Cool Lights
Hi All,
My ears were burning so I thought I'd see what's going on over here. Been a while because I've been very busy here in China. Here's something else I've been up to. I hesitate to call this a clone because although the looks are somewhat similar there are vast improvements in this light over the Diva. Foremost improvement is weight. Diva is listed as 14lbs without tubes. My unit is 8lbs. with tubes! We've been listening to our current customers that say they want lighter lights. Here's a few other facts about the unit:
1). We're using a special corrugated polycarbonate plastic that's designed for use in building atriums and can withstand impacts of hail very well. Hit this stuff with a hammer and its possible to dent it a bit but the hammer bounces off. The version I'm using is black and opaque though (we'll save the transparent model for a special very limited edition later ;-). Anyway, its a hardshell case more akin to a studio light.
2). Edge protection extrusions around the plastic are aluminum and are tougher.
3). Ballasts are not in an obtrusive hump on the back but rather hidden behind the reflector.
4). No need for a heavy plate backing since the plastic is so tough and also since we are using a special extruded thick aluminum reflector that can't be bent easily so its the real skeleton of this unit.
5). We'll have a non-dimming version that's less expensive for those that think (like me) that dimming is not necessary and even undesirable because of color temp changes.
6). Aluminum end caps to protect the reflectors, sockets and tubes. The thing folds up into a nice neat package thats really at home tucked under your arm while walking with it.
7). A PVC extruded gasket that runs the length of the barndoor at the join between the fixture and barndoor. Not only keeps light from leaking out but also acts as a quick release grip for attachments like eggcrates in frames.
I'm enclosing some pictures here that I took of the 2nd revision fixture that I already posted on DVXUser a while back:
The revision we're working on now has incorporated a few comments from people we've gotten opinions from. Including wider, overlapping barndoors and black endcaps rather than silver. There's a stand adapter being worked on right now that connects to the lolipop and snakes around to keep the light's center of gravity over the light stand. Just a bit more and we can lock off and start manufacturing. Also need to come up with a carrying case for it, a bulb carrying case, and a stand thats sturdy enough but also small enough to fit in the case with the light. Damn--seems like theres always one more thing to do before you can call it a real solution!
Richard Andrewski
REDuser Sponsor
When Kino first started out, there weren't that many solutions for running fluorescent lighting for film or t.v. productions. This was in the eighties. Electronic ballasts were rare and compact fluorescents were not in existence. So back then they really were adding value. Fast forward to today and there isn't so much to differentiate them anymore other than the distinctive cosmetic design of a diva or whatever. The ballasts aren't all that special anymore nor are the tubes. I'm still not totally sure about the decision to sell 2900K on their part--probably something related to film. You can get good ballasts on the open market that easily equal or surpass what Kino Flo does. 55 watt biax tubes can be found from most major tube manufacturers like G.E., Phillips, Sylvania, Osram and of course Cool Lights USA ;-) with our standard 3200K and 5600K tubes.
There simply isn't that much difference anymore underneath the covers so to speak. The technology behind fluorescent lighting is so mature now, its easy to find great components like ballasts and bulbs so there isn't so much to separate them now. In fact, reflectors, bulbs and ballasts are what make good light output from a flo fixture. You need all three to have a light that people rave about. Other features like usability, adaptation to grids or stands, and cosmetic differences of whatever fixture housing they are in are what's most immediately noticeable though from a user's perspective.
The decision to DIY or not was clearer before companies like Cool Lights came along and these things were tremendously expensive in the past and still are expensive if you need a name brand like a Kino for some reason. Now you've got something like a CL-455 4x55w light for $329 or our CL-455P non-dimming portable model pictured above for $425, how much money can you really save by doing it yourself and how much time would you spend on it versus time spent on making video/film?
Richard Andrewski
REDuser Sponsor
Ah, but this is the difference between a portable fixture and a studio model. The Diva is a portable model designed for location work. There aren't that many truly portable models out there right now. All the flolights models, our Cool Lights current ones, and most other manufacturers too, are studio models--made out of metal, heavier duty, more at home on a stand or grid in a studio than on the go. Even kino makes some studio models. We just realized our indy market was more on the go and we saw a gap out there in portable fixtures so we decided to help fill it with the plastic model. But I don't like the durability factor in the diva so I decided to make some needed improvements with harder plastic and other things to keep the weight down.
Paolo Tinari
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In my experience, very little (money), verrry much (time)
Richard Andrewski
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I've been saying this for a long time. It's really not rocket science and I'm doing everything I can to demystify it...
Jim Arthurs
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Thanks Richard, it's always more fun when you get into the mix, and I'm really looking forward to Oct. 15th for some reason, where I can see my HMI and small tungsten inventory increasing... almost as much as I'm looking forward to another date, Nov. 10th for us RED serial number 400 guys...
I really like how you've recessed the power switches on your unit so they won't get damaged... the two units I have leave these unprotected.
I can speak to the amount of time needed to DYI you're own, as I've got some reflectors, ballasts, and ABS laying around from my "good intentions" to put something together back in Dec... still haven't done it. Probably never will... time is valuable.
BTW, Richard, is that your 575 HMI PAR back in the distance of that first pic?
I really like how you've recessed the power switches on your unit so they won't get damaged... the two units I have leave these unprotected.
I can speak to the amount of time needed to DYI you're own, as I've got some reflectors, ballasts, and ABS laying around from my "good intentions" to put something together back in Dec... still haven't done it. Probably never will... time is valuable.
BTW, Richard, is that your 575 HMI PAR back in the distance of that first pic?
Richard Andrewski
REDuser Sponsor
Good eyes Jim. That's my pride and joy right now and I use it a lot myself. We've got a couple of noise issues to work out on it and then we're set. They don't bother me but some may not like the noise. Seems its really tough to get an ignitor for an electronic HR ballast that doesn't make any noise at all. Has to do with the higher frequency we drive the bulb at than normal. This of course, in an effort to not only make a brighter output but also avoid flicker at any frame rate or shutter speed as with our fluorescent fixtures. We'll get it. Just takes some patience. We rejected magnetic ballasts which were lower cost and more quiet but were super heavy at 45lbs and had flicker issues of course.
As I mentioned recently on DVXUser, it's a tougher proposition to make a DIY diva because of the edge protection extrusions and gooseneck pipe which work together to allow the barndoors to function in the unique way that they do and the lolipop too is hard-to-find. Not a big deal to get some coroplast and reflectors and ballasts and put those together.
Someone mentioned you can just use sheet metal folded over and yes that would work, but its not the same look for sure. It costs a bundle to have custom extrusions made and you have to buy a ton of material, but we're making the investments because we'll use them in some other projects later too.
Of course, the lolipop is really nice to have too. We found a couple here in China and I'm using the better of the two. Glad I didn't have to make that because its a cast aluminum and nylon part and we're talking really big money to make a die tool for injection molding aluminum and nylon pieces--plus the minimum order was 3000 pieces!
As I mentioned recently on DVXUser, it's a tougher proposition to make a DIY diva because of the edge protection extrusions and gooseneck pipe which work together to allow the barndoors to function in the unique way that they do and the lolipop too is hard-to-find. Not a big deal to get some coroplast and reflectors and ballasts and put those together.
Someone mentioned you can just use sheet metal folded over and yes that would work, but its not the same look for sure. It costs a bundle to have custom extrusions made and you have to buy a ton of material, but we're making the investments because we'll use them in some other projects later too.
Of course, the lolipop is really nice to have too. We found a couple here in China and I'm using the better of the two. Glad I didn't have to make that because its a cast aluminum and nylon part and we're talking really big money to make a die tool for injection molding aluminum and nylon pieces--plus the minimum order was 3000 pieces!