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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Kinefinity MAVO Edge

Kinefinity MAVO Edge 8K: Update


By REDUSER MEMBER YOSSY MENDELOVICH


Article

https://ymcinema.com/2020/12/09/kinefinity-mavo-edge-8k-update/


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That's a bit of a letdown. Hopefully it's a temporary thing. Uncompressed cDNG with 45 megapixel images would be insane, so that's probably never going to happen, though the compression on cDNG relating to Red doesn't seem to compute since there are other codecs available. And Black Magic has been using compressed cCNG for a long time.

Maybe Kinefinity will adopt Black Magic raw to replace ProResRaw?
 
Maybe Kinefinity will adopt Black Magic raw to replace ProResRaw?
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I hope they do. from my experience with dealing with ProRes Raw, I didn't really like it at all. Maybe Atomos or some other company will allow for external recording into the BRAW format
 
rand thompson said:
I hope they do. from my experience with dealing with ProRes Raw, I didn't really like it at all. Maybe Atomos or some other company will allow for external recording into the BRAW format
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I've so far only had one experience with ProResRaw, and it was... adequate. Hampered by a mediocre cinematographer shooting late in the evening with no lighting, so matching to the rest of the show's footage was quite a trial, since the rest of the show had lighting, and I shot it with an Epic-W.

:)
 
Rakesh Malik said:
And Black Magic has been using compressed cCNG for a long time.
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Not really. For maybe 2 years they haven't. For the same reasons. Uncompressed is the only one allowed, and no one wants to deal with 8K+ uncompressed DNG, except some users of Pawels 9x17 monster.

Rakesh Malik said:
Maybe Kinefinity will adopt Black Magic raw to replace ProResRaw?
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Perhaps. It seems interesting that no ProRes RAW in-camera has happened yet at what...3 years after launch of the ProRes RAW codec ? Perhaps a fatal flaw ?

JB
 
I just found ProRes Raw, once normalized, to be noisier than most Red Raw files. However I was using Assimilate Scratch so I don't know how that might have contributed to it.
 
John Brawley said:
Not really. For maybe 2 years they haven't. For the same reasons. Uncompressed is the only one allowed, and no one wants to deal with 8K+ uncompressed DNG, except some users of maybe Pawels 9x17 monster.
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I remember that beast. It seems ridiculous. Did Black Magic drop compressed cDNG from its older cameras also, like the HD Pockets?


Perhaps. It seems interesting that no ProRes RAW in-camera has happened yet at what...3 years after launch of the ProRes RAW codec ? Perhaps a fatal flaw ?
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I've been curious about, but only somewhat because I prefer Braw anyway.
 
rand thompson said:
I just found ProRes Raw, once normalized, to be noisier than most Red Raw files. However I was using Assimilate Scratch so I don't know how that might have contributed to it.
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I don't think that Scratch had much to do with that, because I've used Scratch quite a bit. I graded that short in Scratch, and I've also graded stuff in Scratch that included BRaw footage and DJI Mavic 2 footage along with Redcode.
 
Rakesh Malik said:
I don't think that Scratch had much to do with that, because I've used Scratch quite a bit. I graded that short in Scratch, and I've also graded stuff in Scratch that included BRaw footage and DJI Mavic 2 footage along with Redcode.
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I hadn't used Scratch that much so I didn't know how much of the results I was getting was due to my user error.
 
I was just thinking that now all raw formats will be removed from kinefinity cameras, how much will you be losing by capturing in 4444XQ ProRes from the Kinefinity Cameras? I don't have a Kinefinity camera but I do have some Red Raw files.

I transcoder a 6k Red Raw file into a 6k Prores 4444 XQ file to see if anyone would know the difference. I believe that the ProRes 4444 XQ files from the Kinefinity cameras will be recorded from the Sensor like the Prores 422 files are recorded from the Red Sensors. So they will be of a higher quality than just transcoded files.

I exported a ProRes 4444XQ file out of Redcine-X as a "Full Graded(IPP2 Mode) / RWG/Log3G10 file. I then imported that file into Resolve and used the same IPP2 Output Transform Lut (Mediun/Soft)to transform it. I exported a Tiff of the Red Raw file out of Redcine-X and a Tiff from the ProRes 4444XQ transcoded file from Resolve, can you tell the difference and which one is which? Maybe with movement you could tell the difference.

Redcine-X
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Davinci Resolve
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File 1-6144 x 3160 (111MB)
https://sendgb.com/g2ZaxUwjyFo

File 2-6144 x 3160 (111MB)
https://sendgb.com/YZWy1rfTB8x
 
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Rakesh Malik said:
I remember that beast. It seems ridiculous.
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Needs must. I think if that's what you need it fits the bill perfectly. Uncompressed super high resolution.

Rakesh Malik said:
Did Black Magic drop compressed cDNG from its older cameras also, like the HD Pockets?
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I don't think they've sold / supported those cameras for a while.

JB
 
rand thompson said:
I was just thinking that now all raw formats will be removed from kinefinity cameras, how much will you be losing by capturing in 4444XQ ProRes from the Kinefinity Cameras? I don't have a Kinefinity camera but I do have some Red Raw files.
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Scratch does give you enough rope to hang yourself, so it's possible that it was user error, but the defaults in Scratch tend to deliver reasonably nice results to start with.

There's a big difference in efficiency. ProRes 4444 is huge.
 
6K 4444 files play back smoother on my system than this 6K Red Raw 3:1 file does, but I get what you are saying. I think Kinefinity is going to have to come off of that $11,999 price tag since it will be only offering ProRes 4444XQ, maybe $9999 with the optional Raw upgrade later for an additional cost. And who knows the framerates and crop factors that will be offered in the ProRes 4444XQ format. And will it be able to Record a 8K Prores 4444XQ file or will it be limited to 6k 30fps in ProRes 4444 and 4K HD 48fps ProRes 4444 XQ like the Mavo LF.

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That said, it's still quite a value, and probably going to be a great camera. Hopefully they'll get a raw codec figured out though. If so, it would be a strong contender for the best travel cinema camera. :)
 
Rakesh,

Yeah the footage does look good, but it will most likely get better. Maybe they will give up on the ProRes Raw Codec and actually decide to develop their own. Maybe have some type of external recording in some flavor of Raw to maybe a NVME M.2 SSD device.
 
Hopefully when the full length version of this film is released tomorrow, it will be accompanied by a BTS video with additional technical info along with whatever Creative decisions where made in the production of this film.
 
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