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Keeping the RED ONE - a good idea?

Tony Lorentzen

Tony Lorentzen

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I'm pretty sure Jim and Jarred mentioned at one point that keeping the RED ONE would prove to be a good idea at some point. Any ideas why that is? I love my RED ONE but now that I've have taken delivery of my Epic-X I have no reason to shoot with it myself. So, nostalgia aside, I am keeping it for rental business only. I wish I was rich enough to just keep it for sentimental reasons :-)

Any idea what RED might have up their sleeves for those of us who still have our RED ONEs?
 
Tony Lorentzen said:
So, nostalgia aside, I am keeping it for rental business only. I wish I was rich enough to just keep it for sentimental reasons :-)
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity: how well does your RedOne rent out? Do you still realise appropriate rates, or is everybody asking to rent your Epic for RedOne rates?

I'm pretty sure that in half a year RedOnes work mainly as door stoppers. Not because it's a bad camera. On the contrary. But Epic and Scarlet-X are much lighter and fill the market share that the RedOne currently has better. All those that don't need 5K and overcranking rent a Scarlet, all others an Epic. And those that dislike Red for whatever reasons go Arri or Sony. No real room left for the old RedOne.

Hans
 
Yes.

1. Its a great 4.5K camera
2. Tank
3. A back up
4. Paid off probably
5. Can still earn you money
 
Hey,

Ive heard a couple people say that. People have mentioned a possible upgrade of the red ones, might just be rumours....
 
I have decided it doesn't make sense for us to spend the $15,000+ it would take for us to trade up to the Epic-X at this point in time (we aren't shooting again until 2013), so I, too, am hoping that Mr. Jannard, et. al., have a another trick up their sleeves for the good ol' RED One.

Alas. . . one can always hope, right?

Stephen
 
I think there's some great life left in the Red One. Recently, I had clients turn down my Epic X for my Red One MX instead. Like a lot of clients, they have enough pressure on them already about everything going right for their shoot. So they want a production flow that is rock solid, and no hiccups in post. It's the same reason a lot of productions initially held to film before going to Red One. Sure it will pass as the Epic and Scarlet solidify, but for now the R1 is still very effective.

In the long run, provided Red keeps the Scarlet specs where they are and doesn’t upgrade it to the full capabilities of the R1 MX, it will then boil down to needs. For commercial and music videos, I’m shooting a lot of 4.5k. R1 does that incredibly. As with anything, it takes educating the client. Once clients see the possibility of reframing shots within 4.5k, or taking a Medium and CU shot from the same clip, it’s real hard for them to go back to shooting lower rez. I’m also shooting a lot of 2K at 120fps. I don’t think I want to crop down to 1K at 120fps.

Yes, the Red One is bigger, but I attach some big lenses to it. If size is a problem, you now have two choices. I do many shoots where the camera never leaves the tripod anyways. One funny thing is the client’s perspective. I see clients all the time that are more impressed by a bigger camera (and matte box), than a smaller setup. As long as they write the check and are happy with the results, then I am happy.

Again, I think the Scarlet specs are where they should be. Awesome, but not fully surpassing the Red One. It is an excellent fit. With the Scarlet, Red One MX, and Epic, Red truly created “three of a kind”.

Now, I do hang some hopes on Jarred’s mention that “Stage 2 owners will be glad they held on to their Red Ones.” C’mon, Red, surprise us again! I can’t imagine you taking back all those Stage 3 Red Ones without upgrading them to Monstro and re-selling them as BT Monstro. If I could, I'd be buying more than one of these Red Ones for sale. Already offered my Land Cruiser for Mark Phelan's R1. Alas, he wouldn't take my offer. : = (
All the best,
lael
 
It is pretty brilliant (if inadvertent) that the Scarlet doesn't kill the Red One MX rental market.
 
i wish red would offer some polymer sides or strong carbon fiber sides for the red one.. cut its weight down to 5 lbs like the social network cameras.

besides its weight.. red one is an amazing camera.. what it has that scarlet won't have?

4.5k, higher frame rates, all inclusive 4 channel sound recording, 4 hdsdi ports built in, +more
 
Erich Ocean said:
It is pretty brilliant (if inadvertent) that the Scarlet doesn't kill the Red One MX rental market.
Click to expand...

Scarlet will certainly affect Red One rentals. Just like the 5D was a blow to the Red One rental market when it started to be used for motion video capture. But it's progress and it's going to happen whether you want it to or not. Might as well know that change is coming and prepare your business model for it as best you can.
Best,
lael
 
I am still shooting a feature film with my 2 MX's and the rushes are outstanding, the producers must like what they have seen as between them, they have booked me and the cameras on their next three films,will be even better when my 2 Epics arrive next week.
It would be great if there was a surprise for the Red MX's but whatever happens, I will be keeping mine, even if I only use them as extra cameras for action sequences. They have paid for themselves many times over and still look brand new, thanks to my wonderful camera crew who really look after all the equipment.
 
Actually, it's been a while since I last had any rental on it but I'm also very conservative about who I rent it to; it's basically only being rented out to production companies I've worked with before or productions where I know some of the crew. Also renting it out through a couple of bigger rental houses here in Denmark, but that's been a while since most of that business is now totally owned by Alexa, Sony F3 and the like.

Almost no-one shooting for TV here is shooting RED anymore - simply because the workflow is so much more easy and fast with the Alexa and other 1080p cameras. Post-budgets are very small and deadlines very hard these days so if I even start to mention something like reframing possibilities or the advantages of RAW for TV productions then the producers are going to crucify me ;-) For this reason I'm trying something new, which is to offer free transcoding of up to 1 hour of R3Ds to ProRes or DNxHD with every day of rental. We'll see if this will get me more business. I have a dedicated machine with a Rocket card in it that can do this kind of thing at no cost to me, basically.

A little clarification: I am not expecting Jim and RED to pull out yet another great discount deal for us RED ONE owners. It would just be nice to know if there's going to be any upgrade/crossgrade possibilities in the RED ONE or if we can expect it to be EOLed within a foreseeable future.
 
Tony Lorentzen said:
Almost no-one shooting for TV here is shooting RED anymore - simply because the workflow is so much more easy and fast with the Alexa and other 1080p cameras. Post-budgets are very small and deadlines very hard these days so if I even start to mention something like reframing possibilities or the advantages of RAW for TV productions then the producers are going to crucify me ;-)
Click to expand...

I know Red has their hands full, but I sure wish they would develop a ProRes or DNxHD module for Scarlet/Epic.

Or just buy one of the half-dozen companies that make external modules and adapt it to the Epic.
 
I agree Erich. Or partner up with either one of them to make a module that interconnects with the camera and provides a seamless integration with the camera without us having to worry about cables for power and signal as well as mounting issues and so on. But I guess it's easier said than done.
 
Tony Lorentzen said:
A little clarification: I am not expecting Jim and RED to pull out yet another great discount deal for us RED ONE owners. It would just be nice to know if there's going to be any upgrade/crossgrade possibilities in the RED ONE or if we can expect it to be EOLed within a foreseeable future.
Click to expand...

Yes, of course I am right there with you Tony. We got an incredible deal from Red with Stage 2... unbelieveable in today's corporate world. AND, MX and SSD really gave new life to my Red One. I'm just so fond of it I want to see it Rock a bit longer. For me, over three years it has stopped people in their tracks. Once I built it on set and sent a signal to the monitor, the crew would begin to ooh and aah. Everyone's game picked up.

I'm loving the Epic X. It's a beaut. But I'd love to stop crews again with my Red One. I want to hear the "Oh man, it's got the ____ upgrade!". I want to see the grin on their faces when they see the output.

This camera is wonderful! As always, Thanks Red!

lael
 
I will keep at least one for sure ;)
 
I'm keeping Red One. Here's where I learned I was a p@ssy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIi4mny_Gl0&feature=player_embedded#!

See how happy he is about 8:30 minute mag times. Yep that's essentially a 16GB RED CF card. See how he's handholding it (granted it's a better handheld camera than a R1), see how he's talking about traveling the world with it. He makes pretty decent images with it. The point is that many of us complain about the size of the R1. Yes, it's not a camera that you throw in your shoulder bag and go out and do point and shoot with. But I've come to the conclusion that a lot of things that are worthwhile shooting often are best done on a tripod, dolly, jib, etc. Doing handheld properly is not automatically easier with smaller cameras. My GH2 is tiny, but it sucks handheld unless you have a support for it. It does let me grab some cool home movies and I do get to steal shots with it. But for professional filmmaking, I've come to the conclusion that if I can't make good shots with a R1, I can't make them with an Epic or a Scarlet either.

No doubt, Epic is a leap in technology and well worth the price of admission in terms of image quality. My business partner has one and we will use it for a lot of things. But there will be times when R1 is put into action and I will not hesitate using it. It has been a workhorse. Where Epic and Scarlet are still coming together in terms of features, firmware, accessories, etc the R1 is a complete machine, ready for battle. Eventually it will be the old guy on the block and Epic and Scarlet will run circles around it, but it will still give them a good fight every once in a while.

I'm not surprised people have taken the leap to Epic. The deals were too good to pass up. And in the long run, I do believe they will be better off for it. Those who were able to get an Epic and keep the R1 have a powerful duo right now.

Three cameras. All powerful in their own way. I think RED did this perfectly. In fact, the customer base should be ecstatic right now. Epic is the all powerful machine in a small body. R1 is the veteran who can still kick some butt on any given day, and Scarlet allows a wide range of people to get into 4K with a smaller investment. And have a smooth transition to Epic when they are ready to go there.

If you are someone that rents out R1, there will be challenges up ahead. If you have had it for a while, chances are you've at least made your money back. If you're like me and rental was never the sole purpose of the camera and instead use it as the heart of your own productions, then it should last for at least a couple more years if not more. Looking through some original M sensor footage using new color science I realize, even the M sensor cameras out there should have some life left in them. When properly exposed and with a full understanding of how to process them you can get amazing images out of those too and they are going for a song now. People should consider these packages being offered unless they are dead set on getting an Epic or Scarlet. There are some very complete packages being offered at low price points.

To sum it all up, I need to get in shape like Scott Duncan so I can realize that R1 is not the problem, me being a p@ssy is the problem. Also because R1 is modular, you have to build it properly for the task at hand, and although not perfect ergonomics by any means, the R1 can be built to be light and manageable handheld or built like tank ready for war on sticks or a dolly.

Sorry for going on this rant, in some ways it's just me having a conversation with myself. :-)
 
For hand-held work, we use the Easy-Rig 3 with out RED one and like it very much. It's a very balanced set-up that way. At least for us.

I really am hoping that we'll get the ____________ upgrade, too.

Truly.

Stephen
 
Nice rant Steve. I appreciate that take on the subject. You're right...we are so spoiled with our R1s. I can't believe how long I am shooting with only a 64GB SSD. And I know the footage is rock solid... no worries anymore about exposure, developing and transfer.
Hope to see you down in Atlanta again sometime.
Best,
lael
 
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