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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Just Wrapped up a 7 day commercial.. 2 epics

I'm sure Zak didn't mean to say that 8:1 is softer (as in less resolution) than 5:1 because that isn't true. Whether you can tell the compression difference is another story. For reference, 8:1 is less compression than REDCODE 36.

Jim
 
Jim is right.. My words came out wrong.. The picture isnt SOFTER in terms of resolution..
The new compression really shines though and the image looks amazing. and all im saying is, the camera is an improvement

Also didnt mean to scare anyone away. the camera works like a charm and looks great. This was meant to be a post from the front lines.. using the camera on a million + plus commercial, and it performed!

The camera is still getting new features everyday, and with that comes improvements all around.

the resolution is sharp, the colors are fantastic, and the new compression ratios sweeten the deal.
 
N_Villers said:
To hear that 8:1 is softer than 5:1 might be true or might not, or more likely is true "for the moment." But the point is that this helps me understand something.

-noel
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basically I was just doing some ROUGH testing to see which compression we should shoot at (storage requirements) . I took two shots of the same scene 5:1 40fps 8:1 @ 40fps and 10:1 @ 40fps

I saw a slight slight slight difference in image. one looked crispier, could have just been my own knowledge of what i was looking at, but i asked the 2nd AC if he preferred one over the other.. and 5:1 won. not saying the others didnt look good.. its just 5:1 had something about it. Sharper might be the wrong word to use.


oh and btw... the SSD's are AMAZING!!!
Cant wait to get that system on my red one..
 
Well, I'd only add that if all we hear is flag waving and cheer-leading, then the whole thing is going to start to sound a little hollow. I am as excited as the next guy about the Epics and I have already put my money where my mouth is with Red. But it seems to me if we are going to have advance reviews from the field, and issues are mentioned, there should be follow-up allowed. A policy of "only good news allowed" seems like a poor strategy.
 
You didn't scare me Zak. ;) I took it as 8:1 is great, and 5:1 is even mo' betta. I am pretty sure Graeme said that the bigger the image the more effective REDCODE gets! So I am expecting more of everything, at every level, in every way. It is only logical that the lower compressions be the mo' bettas of all the bettas you'll have at your disposal.
 
While I understand those who want to know both good and bad .... I think if I were in Jim's shoes I would be doing the same. If Reduser werent' a public forum then it would be different -- but it's not. And trolls and haters can come here, isolate a negative thing, and then create FUD that lasts way too long.

Again, this kind of thing doesn't just hurt Red -- it hurts all of us as owners who will use the Epic as a selling point for projects and also for rentals. The more myths and FUD there are, the tougher our sell is for Red stuff. Just not worth it -- not at this stage in the process, especially.

My .05 ...

Anthony
 
Allthough I am all for for finding out what stuff really does, and what it does not, there is a side to alpha/beta programs that I do indeed respect a lot...

RED could either have restricted the use of Epic ONLY to Spiderman/offhollywood and the like, who have absolutely no interest of airing issues found with the Epic in the public.

Or take the chance with guys like Ketch, Tom and let's say: Zak and me....

Of course. Once general rentalhouses have the cam, it is more or less in the open...

Still.

We know it's not done yet. And until then, let's cheerish the good news, and speak with RED about the issues we have. That is after all the best bet for getting them solved...
 
On the company I work for, it's been policy for years that you do not speak about issues that exist in the Alpha/Beta builds of software/firmware - except if you're standing around the virtual watercooler that is :thumbup1:

But no, really, the issues and kinks are going to be worked out so running and telling everyone "HEY! Look everyone! EPIC has ISSUES!" wouldn't do much to help anyone - except the fearmongers and armchair analysts who would be quick to conclude that these "issues" are reason #1 not to use EPIC - which has the potential for ripple effect. This has happened before and is certainly NOT uncommon (I wasn't personally in the project, but we have had two games that were leaked because of idiot managers keeping copies at home - both received poor reviews for unfixed bugs...the build was in beta)

If we were talking about a shipping, stamped and approved, EPIC-X I might very well be inclined to see things differently and would certainly like to see the camera put through it's paces! But while I sympathize with those who want to avoid the "cheerleader" attitude, frankly, I'd rather hear what the camera does well then what it does poorly because of some unresolved issue that is being worked on!

Cheers and happy shooting MUsers! :beer:
 
Rob Gardner said:
Well, I'd only add that if all we hear is flag waving and cheer-leading, then the whole thing is going to start to sound a little hollow. I am as excited as the next guy about the Epics and I have already put my money where my mouth is with Red. But it seems to me if we are going to have advance reviews from the field, and issues are mentioned, there should be follow-up allowed. A policy of "only good news allowed" seems like a poor strategy.
Click to expand...

People can post bad news when there really is bad news... in the meantime posts like this don't really seem like a good strategy.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
People can post bad news when there really is bad news... in the meantime posts like this don't really seem like a good strategy.

Jim
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Probably true, but you just can't avoid it. You cannot have beautiful videos posted by Epic early users without having people asking questions that could somehow spread rumors based on false perceptions. It's weird, but it's the nature of the internet, I guess.

In Italy we have a saying that goes something like this: "you can't have the full keg and a drunk wife at the same time". In other words, the choice of having an open forum where anyone can register and voice their opinions is and always will be a double-edged sword: on one hand, you get to access some first-hand information, on the other you have to read through thousands of people's opinions and comments. Some of those are very valid and based on facts, others are clearly not. In the end, it's up to the individual what to make of all of it.

Personally, I think there's way too much attention to what is posted online (here and elsewhere), but that's me. I like watching clips online and reading reports from people who know what they're doing with the new cameras, I do have questions and I'm 100% sure there will be lots of things I will love about Epic (though I won't buy one) and others I won't like that much, just like with any other camera. My opinion won't be influenced by what I read or see here (or elsewhere). Call me "old school", if you want, but my opinion of any camera, including Epic, will be solely based on hands-on tests I will run for myself. If I picked a camera (or a lens, a film stock, etc) just because I read online it's supposed to be absolutely amazing, i wouldn't consider myself a serious professional. On the other hand, I will never dismiss any technology just because I've read "it sucks". Even in that case, I will wait to put my hands on it and test it.
Just my 2€cents...
 
=Francesco Bonomo;741341...the choice of having an open forum where anyone can register and voice their opinions is and always will be a double-edged sword: on one hand, you get to access some first-hand information, on the other you have to read through thousands of people's opinions and comments.
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Problem is that the RED world changes so fast that sometimes issues that come up at this forum are already adressed.

In the early RED One days I had to fight producer who told there where issues (post-production at that time) with RED r3d that where allready adressed since months.

Let's see when we get Epic in our hands. Hope this time will come shortly.


Pat

Biggest issue for me is that common movie S35 optics are too big for this little beast. Would love to have 1rst grade photographic lenses, without breathing and nice focus scale to put on the Epic.
 
Patrick Tresch said:
Problem is that the RED world changes so fast that sometimes issues that come up at this forum are already adressed.
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absolutely. One more reason I don't trust anything I find online, positive or negative. If I happen to find something that doesn't work with any camera or something that looks like a bug, I contact the rental house and camera support, I don't post it online.

In the early RED One days I had to fight producer who told there where issues (post-production at that time) with RED r3d that where allready adressed since months.
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What matters in the end is facts, not rumors. If a producer (or director) told me "you cannot shoot on Red because it overheats very often", I would politely ask him if that's his own direct experience or just something he heard about, I wouldn't tell him about hundreds of productions where the camera was used, say, in hot climates, I'd rather go shoot a test designed to address that issue.
 
Rob Gardner said:
Well, I'd only add that if all we hear is flag waving and cheer-leading, then the whole thing is going to start to sound a little hollow. I am as excited as the next guy about the Epics and I have already put my money where my mouth is with Red. But it seems to me if we are going to have advance reviews from the field, and issues are mentioned, there should be follow-up allowed. A policy of "only good news allowed" seems like a poor strategy.
Click to expand...

Epic-X hasn't shipped, and to me Epic-M is clearly a Beta type release. Red just has the benefit of having thousands willing to pay 5 digits more to get in on the Beta, and the benefit of having a product so revolutionary that is also ensures ROI and profit for those lucky Beta bastards. :) If I were driving Red --and I bet everyone else would do the same-- we'd only pick those who will help the program by not pretending Epic-M to be complete, and helping prioritize feature development with feedback. I mean... if I know I can do something, because I made sure the Brain had plenty of power and versatility in it's design (the thing is a mini super-computer!) then I would not wont anyone to say it isn't complete... because it is a matter of time, not a technical limitation, or lack of willingness. 0.002
 
Hey, Zak, you were the guy that brought the whole thing up.

All I can say in closing is "you can't have the full keg and a drunk wife at the same time"

Words to live by...
 
Again, I don't think there is anything sensational in this thread... ? Can someone point it out?

I like the keg analogy. Thing is, this is a larger and improved keg, with new advanced technology that magically compresses beer to give you more in a smaller size, and it also cost less. So by older keg standards you technically do still have a full keg after the wife is drunk and winking at you. :)
 
Hey, I never thought there was anything sensational, I don't know how it got to that. I thought Zak was an honest guy reporting what he experienced with the new camera (which I appreciate) and I wondered what the kinks he mentioned were. I'd ask him the same thing if I met him in a bar. How it got to be the trial of the century, I don't know...

But now I'm confused. If Epic is the keg, who is the drunk wife? Panasonic?
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
This got blown out oF proportion..

The cameras are in the public. Check them out.
They look great
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Thanks for clarifying. I think people took the word "kinks" and blew it out of proportion. Kink could mean anything -- even a temporary limitation or need for workaround created by a yet-to-be-made-available feature.

Glad to see they worked well for you and that the R1 MX intercuts well with Epic ....

Thanks Zak.

Anthony
 
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