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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

JPEG2000 in Adobe workflow?

laguun said:
The only one of these who can handle 4K@10/16bit RGB is Adobe Premiere CS3.
Click to expand...

OK, why don't you spend 3 minutes and:
1. Get five sequences of 16-bit TIFFs, say ~1000 frames each
2. Add them to the time line, trim, scrub and assemble precisely. Perhaps a couple of cross disolves.

Adobe CS3 will run of memory within seconds and crash. This is despite 4Gb RAM (maximum for XP) and only ~1Gb taken by Premiere process.

I am not taking even real-time performance here, it just doesn't allow you to do a simple edit.

laguun said:
If you want some powerful HD-SDI i/o including 2K/1080 i/o with 10 and more bits in RGB and YUV, via SMPTE 259M, SMPTE 344M, SMPTE 292M,
SMPTE 372M and SMPTE 424M 3G-SDI, then aja (www.aja.com) and blackmagic design (www.decklink.com) are pretty usual expansion.
Click to expand...

So, tell me something I don't know (I do have Blackmagic Extreme installed, BTW)
 
Pawel, your correct. Seems to be a consumer app, sold as professional. Not sure why.
Features are good, but the program seems to be very unstable for professional work.
 
Pawel Achtel said:
OK, why don't you spend 3 minutes and:
Click to expand...
Our 2K suites are usually booked on an daily basis.

Pawel Achtel said:
1. Get five sequences of 16-bit TIFFs, say ~1000 frames each
Click to expand...
lets enhance that to 10.000 sequences.

Pawel Achtel said:
2. Add them to the time line, trim, scrub and assemble precisely. Perhaps a couple of cross disolves.
Click to expand...
working *perfectly* here on adobe, matrox, decklink....

Pawel Achtel said:
Adobe CS3 will run of memory within seconds and crash.
Click to expand...
Fix your computer system might be the only reasonalble answer here.
If you dont understand how - get help.


Pawel Achtel said:
This is despite 4Gb RAM (maximum for XP) and only ~1Gb taken by Premiere process.
Click to expand...
XP64 limits you to 128Tb.


Pawel Achtel said:
I am not taking even real-time performance here, it just doesn't allow you to do a simple edit.
Click to expand...
we usually offer clients solutions, not complanits.
Adobe works *perfectly* here


Pawel Achtel said:
So, tell me something I don't know (I do have Blackmagic Extreme installed, BTW)
Click to expand...
Your postpro approach is defective.
You shouldnt offer it until you learn to understand it.
Your incompetence might mislead red users to associate your lack of of understanding with an perfectly working workstation .
 
I just came here to look for some info - don't post much, but I have to chime in here and side with Laguun on this one. Now, I must admit I'm not doing 4K editing in my suite outside of organizing shots in RedCine, but I have Matrox hardware based around the CS3 suite, and having delivered HD shows to either ESPN, Versus, or Discovery on a weekly basis for the last year with my systems, and often to all of them in the same week, I would consider the package able to handle "pro" work very nicely. In fact, a few FCP and Avid houses in my town (and one out-of-town) are coming to ME to finish their work, output Flash files, and output DVDs for them. A couple of those Avid shops also come to me to do their audio post for them, and I use the Premier/Audition combo to do it with well-received results. Now, I don't care about any corp like Adobe's or Apple's status, and I'm sure they don't care about me personally, so I'm not touting one over the other, but I can simply vouch for the fact that some people are indeed doing "pro" work with the Adobe package and Premier. As far as RED is concerned, I haven't had to deliver any 4K masters lately, but I do output 4K files from REDCine into a 1080/23.98 file my editing system understands, and it's going quite nicely for HD broadcast work. Some clips from a test shoot I did for a hotel promo, wherein I output the 4K clips from RedCine, added the 1080 clips to my timeline, added some diffusion using the After Effects/Premier dynamic link, and output the test shots as a QT, can be found here: www.litzwire.net/shares/hawkspromotest6.mov (save to your HD for best performance). I have by no means mastered the camera yet, and the shots look a touch soft in that QT, but on my HD production monitor they are as sharp as I would want them to be for HD work, and proof that there is a workflow for my line of work. Anyhoo - I personally think Premier works great with the right hardware - it's been stellar for me on my broadcast work, and it's working well so far for my RED work, although I do plan on building a system based around Cineform when those guys have a workflow put together for the RED that's better than what I'm doing. I'll use my Matrox systems strictly for TV work and the Cineform/AJA system for RED work...until a "pro" app comes along that I like ;).
 
laguun said:
Fix your computer system might [sic.] be the only reasonalble [sic.] answer here.
If you dont [sic.] understand how - get help.
Click to expand...
Actually, no! It is not reasonable answer. I have 25 years of hands-on experience as a software developer (most low-level languages) and, sometimes provide help to clients like Microsoft to get their software working.

laguun said:
XP64 limits you to 128Tb.
Click to expand...
So, does that mean that Adobe Premiere CS3 does not work well on XP 32?


laguun said:
we usually offer clients solutions, not complanits.
Click to expand...
How is it relevant what you offer to your clients and why should I care? My complaint was relating to Premiere CS3, not to you or your clients.

laguun said:
Your postpro [sic.] approach is defective.
You shouldnt [sic.] offer it until you learn to understand it.
Click to expand...
Offer what? I don't offer anything. Defective approach? What is that supposed to mean?

laguun said:
Your incompetence might [sic.] mislead [sic.] red [sic.] users to associate your lack of of [sic.] understanding with [sic.] an [sic.] perfectly working [sic.] workstation.
Click to expand...
Can I suggest that you refrain from personal remarks?
 
Christopher Grant Harvey said:
Well at least they might someday catch the hint that Premiere "Pro" needs some more work. :wink:
Click to expand...

Well, yes they do, but the way most corporate organisations interpret "more work" is as in "more features", not "more reliable".
 
i use vista 64 with 8 gigs....
no memory problems for PPro...
 
I frequently use Premiere CS3 to cut longform material, and I don't find less riddled with problems and bugs than FCP (different problems, yes, but in many cases easier to work around).

Typically, in features, timelines are no longer than 20 minutes. The average feature film would have five 20 minute long 'reels' or timelines. That makes it manageable from a creative, managereal, and technical standpoint for Avid, FCP, and Premiere.

Admittedly, Premiere has near zero traction with Hollywood editors, but in my experience they are the group least likely to change apps. It takes a colossal effort to get an Avid guy to learn FCP, or vice versa, forget about Premiere. I think Adobe is well entrenched in the industrial market, though, where longform HD (only 6% less data than 2k) is quite common.

I use Premiere CS3 to cut multiple layers with fx and other stuff in 20 minute chunks at HD & 2k. I don't run a 64bit OS so I have problems with 4k, but I finish in Scratch, and would not chose to finish a project in a dedicated NLE.
 
mdharrington said:
i use vista 64 with 8 gigs....
no memory problems for PPro...
Click to expand...

That's interesting because emulated applications running on Windows 64 layer are not able to address any more memory than they could on a 32-bit system. This means that, unless Premiere CS3 is a 64-bit application it will not benefit from 64-bit addressing space.

This is confirmed by Adobe (ref: http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/faq/ ):

Although Adobe Premiere Pro is not a native 64-bit application, it can run on 64-bit versions of Windows Vista. In this configuration, you can install up to 64GB of RAM in the system, and Adobe Premiere Pro can address up to 3GB of this RAM

Are you sure you can online uncompressed 2k or 4k TIFF sequences for a total duration longer than 1 minute?

When I scrub a few clips (image sequences) of, say 1000 frames each, on the editing line, the memory usage of the Premiere process goes to about 2Gb and Premiere displays "Out of memory warning" after which it either hangs or stops performing any further actions. It does, however handle shorter clips, say 10 seconds in duration.
 
i have been using cineform 4k so I couldn't honestly comment on running a 4k tiff sequence

as far as the memory is concerned, in the cineform thread The question was raised and David Newman stated that 64 bit os allows premiere to see 4gb rather than the 2 or 3 of a 32 bit app.

now i am not qualified to say which is right, but I would probably believe david first since he knows PPro's guts inside out.

either way on xp 32 the maximum memory that can be supported TOTAL is 4gb. So if PPro is eating 3gb and the XP at least .5gb...your almost at the limit.

Now with me running 64 bit, I have 3(or 4 GB depending who you believe)
for PPro, vista being a hog uses probably a gig....so i still have 3 or 4 gigs left.

Running 4k tiff sequences sounds scary to me...
 
mdharrington said:
i have been using cineform 4k so I couldn't honestly comment on running a 4k tiff sequence
...
Running 4k tiff sequences sounds scary to me...
Click to expand...

The point is that I am not able to stitch even 2k 8-bit TIFF sequences together.

I guess this indicates that, in order to online in Premiere CS3, one has to use either Cineform or Jpeg2000, like Tom suggested. I will have to give it a go.
 
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