John Galt Talks Pixels

[Graeme Nattress]

I wish you'd said your observation was based on the 720p feed / in camera demosaic though. That would have stopped all the confusion from the start.

Graeme

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Fun thing - to me, is that it is when things start to move, not on rez-charts of downsampled images @ 1080/2k - the resolution of R1 M and MX really starts to come through.

On res-charts I can hit a good or bad alignement ad get slightly different results.

In motion the added resolution performance really starts to be visible. I am not saying it's not there in charts, but its importance shows up in "regular" images in motion.

That's what I really like about the idea behind Epic.

You can either put on a softening/diff filter like some cameras do, but then you get some strange artefacts from that, or you can add even more resolution, and get much of the same goodies without adding the bad'ies.

Softening isn't all that bad, as it gives nicer rollover.

More resolution does the same thing, without the downsides of softening.

Me likes.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

“Well informed people know it is impossible to transmit the voice over wires and that were it possible to do so, the thing would be of no practical value.”

[The Boston Post, 1865]

“Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible.”

[Lord Kelvin, British mathematician and physicist, ca. 1895]

“Radio has no future.”

[Lord Kelvin, ca. 1897]

“Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons.”

[Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949]

“There is no need for any individual to have a computer in their home.”

[Ken Olson, President of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977]

“No one will need more than 637 kb of memory for a personal computer. 640K ought to be enough for anybody.”

[Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft, 1981]

"If you had true 4K resolution in your local theater, everybody would have to sitting in the first 6 rows. Otherwise they wouldn't see any extra detail.
Their eyes wouldn't LET them see it."

[John Galt, Panavision Senior Vice President of Advanced Digital Imaging, 2009]

 

[Steven Caesare]

When you look at a zone plate from the F35 / Genesis you'll see a few things:

1) different resolution horizontally than vertically
2) more luma moire vertically
3) chroma moire / rainbows horizontally
4) overall resolution sub 1920 lines (about 75% of that visible in image projection)

So how does that answer your question? Let's compare with the RED One:

1) same resolution horizontal and vertical
2) negligible luma moire
3) negligible chroma moire
4) overall resolution vastly greater than 1920 lines. Approx 3.2k visible on projection. MTF is very strong so that unlike the F35, 2k resolution is strongly visible and detailed with strong MTF.

Theory becomes meaningless when you build the camera and shoot the image.

Graeme

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree... I love your zone plate shots with their complete lack of aliasing out the the MTF limitd the R1 is capable of.

I was simply asking about the OLPF comment (as opposed to the bayer-vs-stripe or prism discussion), because that's not a point I'd heard poken of before.

I was wondering if you felt it was an incorrect premise, or there are ather factors that don't make this a sinificant consideratipon, etc...

-sc

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Theoretically, it could be an issue, but practically speaking, as evidenced by the high detail zone plate charts, it's not an issue. However, on the other hand, I've seen moire issues on F35 footage on broadcast on a real world programme, so I'd say that is a practical concern.

Graeme

 

[Martin Stevens]

[The Boston Post, 1865]



[Lord Kelvin, British mathematician and physicist, ca. 1895]



[Lord Kelvin, ca. 1897]



[Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949]



[Ken Olson, President of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977]



[Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft, 1981]



[John Galt, Panavision Senior Vice President of Advanced Digital Imaging, 2009]

I love this post. Brought a smile to my face.

It made me think of the old medical idea that if something is not visible to the eye, then it does not exist.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

fyi that bill gates quote is a fake.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Does it matter ?

 

[Peter Lyons Collister ASC]

Tests

Tests

We just did a test of 35mm anamorphic on 5219, Alexa, RED MX, and Sony F35 at 12 bit.

We went to a DI suite, and then filmed it all out again to film. No question, film was the most luminous and had the greatest dynamic range (even 5219) , RED has more resolution... In fact much more than even the film.

The F35 and the Alexa looked great as far as dynamic range.Their skin tones were closer to film. Hence why we now have HDRx (or soon will) And that hopefully will take care of that issue.

CMOS vesus CCD 3 chip is a scientific discussion until you need real life uses.And in the feature world it is about the whole enchilada

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Does it matter ?

It does if you value accuracy and truth.

"Red is a useless camera."
-Hrvoje Simic

 

[Rich Schaefer]

It's plainly obvious to anyone who's had the visit to the RED Studio cinema that the best "2k" camera out there - the F35 doesn't have the resolution or MTF of even the RED One, and that's in our 4k projection environment, not pixel-peeping. Similarly we've seen 4k as 4k and 4k downsampled to 2k and you can see the resolution improvement in the 4k over the 2k.

Graeme

Absolutely! Resolution matters!

Prost,
Rich

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

It does if you value accuracy and truth.

"Red is a useless camera."
-Hrvoje Simic

It was a funny post.

I can remove the Bill Gates quote if that will add to it's accuracy and truth.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

fyi that bill gates quote is a fake.

Pretty sure it's not "fake", just a quote taken a bit out of context.

 

[Jannard]

We are pretty close to closing this thread. At IBC 2006 John Galt told me that the RED ONE "might" be able to be a 2nd unit camera to the Genesis. I wonder what his opinion is today.

Jim