John Carter

[Andrew PC Smith]

I flat out loved the movie, and also had my best 3D experience to date. AMC Century City Imax Digital screen in LA ($20 a ticket) has to be the best, sharpest, deepest 3D i've seen yet.
Also the glasses weren't motorized and only lost about 1/3 of an f-stop.

Agreed. Although, I think 3D will only be truly enjoyable when you don't have to wear glasses at all to see it, I'm kind of with Stu Maschwitz on that point. The viewing angle has to be straight-on or the parallax gets distorted. I always walk out of a 3D movie with a slight headache.

But despite the rant on 3D, I thought it was an epic movie, and stayed as close to the books as possible while still being an enjoyable film. The battle scenes didn't really hold much tension in my opinion, but it was a visually stunning movie and had several great moments. It would've been interesting if you had a time machine to release John Carter before Avatar to see what that would've done to it's success.

 

[Marc Wielage]

It would've been interesting if you had a time machine to release John Carter before Avatar to see what that would've done to it's success.

Yep, I said something similar to a friend of mine recently: if they just could've released John Carter about 10-12 years ago, it might have had a chance. But motion capture was a tough hurdle.

And to tell you the truth, if I had a time machine, I'd buy a few thousand shares of Apple stock at $8 in 1998... ($600 today.)

 

[Kinky Kelly]

I fell asleep.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

You know, the problem with a lot of science fiction series, is that they take too long to get to the action, not so much this one, but it has a few slow pregrant pauses. I don't mean just physical action at the beginning but intellectual action too. I think 'serious' people call it character development, or such forth. By 3 episodes you can loose a lot of people. On the other extreme is mindless 'action' with no character or plot development, this is commonly referred to as 'rubbish'.

I think it was pretty cool though.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

I hear you Mark Toia... BUT... I read these when i was 14-15 and spent 35 years wanting to make them... longest development of any film EVER actually - Red Sonja producer had rights locked up for last 2 decades... then Stanton gets it - I get excited (I would have brought them to Peter JAsckson not Pixar) - then this disastrous abomination comes out.

Saw it twice to make sure it wasn't just me being jealous... I mean the 9th ray is a benevolent ray in the book that provides buoyancy for the ships to fly THE LIGHT MARTIAN ATOMPSHPEHRE LIKE SHIPS ON THE OCEAN... in 1912!!

In the movie the 9th Ray is wielded as a doomsday weapon that vaporizes people and ships? WTF!!!!?????

That was just the beginning of how much they bastardized the story... just read the books again and they are an INCREDIBLE adventure that the character can't explain how it happened. . Its another dimension on mars hence we can't be seen with telescopes.. again 1912 he wrote this stuff.

Where was the atmosphere plant (Terraforming) that was in the book? Gone? And why the FUCK did they create a STARGATE Like device to teleport the character... NO WHERE IN THE BOOK did this happen. so yeah. I was fucking pissed and elated and the same time. The apes were NOTblind in the book and 8-10 feet the green men were 15 feet. (for framing I trust that it was easier at 8 feet )

I mean I admit Ive been obsessed with these books for decades and I even talked to the granddaughter Margaret Burroughs when I was 18... she laughed at my dream... but insisted she would never sell them to a studio as they would eff them up... (she kept that promise to her death - her son sold the rights)

This movie was an ABSOLUTE DISGRACE to ERB and his books... thank god there will be no sequels and I will spend the rest of my life forever trying to make them - Asylums $200K version on netflix was better story wise... and its so horribly bad, its hilarious.

They got about 20% right... what a waste of $350M - three hundred and fifty MILLION dollars.

Turns out the story was DESTROYED by Stanton NOT Disney... thank god. His ego ruined that film according to reports. He created the poster that makes no sense. the stupid trailers ... ignored lots of advice... because he was the "it" boy... well not anymore.

The Good

VFX were photorealistic...most unbelievable battle sequences with live action versus animation EVER. I mean wow. if you didn't read the books this film probably wouldbt be bad. but my GF
thought it was boring

DISNEY ALLOWED A BEHEADING IN A MOVIE! granted it was a CGI character... but still a beheading in a disney movie is a big step.

Dejah Thoris was SPOT on CASTING
John Carter was excellent casting
Costumes were insanely loyal to the books artwork

But for $250M to take these incredible stories (GO read the books, in elegant prose and what an adventure. I couldn't put them down at 14 and still can't at 48. WHY the hell did he bring characters form the 2nd and 3rd book into the first? and then they aren't even close to what they were in the book... no idea but i will close on this

THANK YOU ANDREW STANTON FOR CREATING ISHTAR ON MARS... my dream stays alive

EDIT: Download the FREE COPY on iBooks for your iPad - tell me why the hell Powell, who is his best friend in the book, is now this a-hole colonel in the movie?

 

[Wayne Morellini]

So, some people seem to indicate it is a descent enough adaption are sayiing it is not, others aren't, just how bad is it, am I going to read the boos and find out this guys was nowhere near as good with futuristic vision as the film makes out (ie, they jazzed it up)?

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I saw it sunday... I'm with Tim on this one. Disney/Pixar screwed the pooch here. Could have been great, but it's just meh... They butchered many primary story elements and potential sub-plots. Practically a bastard-child re-write of the first book, with several elements of the next 2 or 3 books crammed in there, at the expense of, well, a lot...

Was excited to see Bryan Cranston. To bad they totally ruined his character (Powell) with the abysmal re-write. In E.R.B's original works, James Powell was John Carter's best friend (on earth) and business partner. WTF...?

Sure, the original Barsoom stories were published nearly 100 years ago and yes, much of it just doesn't hold up in the face of modern knowledge. We have to remember, back in the day, these were fantastic tales of what could be -- these were days when Mars was thought by much of the scientific community to have canals of flowing water and pop culture almost certified the existence of green men. Of course, the Barsoom stories take place on Mars, but in an alternate dimension. John Carter doesn't know how he arrived there specifically, but somehow entered a gateway while working (prospecting / mining for gold) in a cave.

E.R.B. and his writing is often criticized for it being ill-conceived and poorly written. To some extent, the poorly written aspect is true, he really wasn't the best of writers. Not that it makes much difference. There are plenty of mediocre writers with exceptional stories to tell and many do get their work out there, which it in turn finds a large audience who hungers for more. Perfect example -- J.K. Rowling. Just read the first Harry Potter book. The grammar and overall structure is atrocious, but you know what? It works! And as you read through the series, you can see Rowling develop as a writer as much, or even more so, than her own characters develop through the books. Not to go off on that tangent, but the point is, even with the criticisms over E.R.B's writing, he still had some very interesting stories to tell. Especially in the time they were published. He laid down the foundations for much of what contemporary sci-fi has become. IMO, this new John Carter film is little more than a slap in the face here to the original works.

IMO, Disney/Pixar were sitting on a gold mine with this. Something that could have been as big as, or bigger, than Pirates of the Caribbean or Star Wars. Too bad they wiped their ass with the original works and released a stand-alone film with little place to go other than some crap sequel that can only divert even further from what was once and already great. Jeez... They could have made a heck of a good movie just building on Capt. Jack (John Carter's identity in the Civil War) and the whole immortality and other back-story. I don't think Disney wanted another Capt. Jack, though...

As for the film itself, it was a real non-starter for me. The FX were pretty darn good and the casting was spot-on. Not so sure about some of the action sequences and some of the over-blown wire stunts. Some of it was a little too Star Wars like. I agree with Tim here too, the VFX, casting, art direction, etc.. were all great. What was butchered was the story. I don't know if it was Stanton's ego or pressure from Disney sinking $350 million into a fried turkey or what, but something went horribly wrong here. Yeah, if you've never read any of the books, it would probably play out a lot better. My wife isn't the sci-fi nut I am, but she still likes a good sci-fi every now and then. She told me that "Cowboys and Aliens was more entertaining and it was still dogshit." And, sadly, I'm inclined to agree.

...They spent $350M on this. OMFG. LOL. Someone got screwed.

And here comes the rhetorical question of the day... It applies to most all films adapted from literary works... WHY DO THEY *ALWAYS* HAVE TO TAKE A PERFECTLY GOOD STORY AND RE-WRITE IT??? I honestly can't see how anyone could have read this bastard-child-rewrite and thought it was better than the original, or even on the same level. ...Unless, they were not familiar with the originals? But I digress... money is often blind and likewise stupid.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Thanks Jeff. Although I would have to disagree that he wasn't a great writer... I think the beautiful prose of the book still hold up today but it could seem dated... I think ERB was most likely abducted by aliens at some point... only because in the book the experience that John carter has in the cave is not at all unlike the experience that almost every single person has who has claimed to be abducted by greys. sudden paralysis with full mental capabilities.

In the book the Holy Therns are gorgeous " adonis like characters" with flowing blond hair and are LATER discovered to be hideous and bald. They are in the 2nd book - The Gods of Mars and while they have mind control over all barsoomians... they do NOT have it over John Carter... he "fakes" it to enter their domain and ispel their phony region... they are protected by a BLACK race called The Daturs... Another just stupid Andrew Stanton adaptation. He created over 1 dozen races with multiple religions across an entire planet! The fact in the book they queered is that he can read all their minds... but nobody can read his. He again "doesn't know why, but definitely uses it to his advantage)

fom 1912 to 1925... Total Recall borrowed extensively from the first book... which is probably why they ditched the atmosphere plant... but if marketed as one of the GRAND FATHERS of all science fiction, people would have finally given credit to the man who inspired (and was ripped off) by so many modern sic fi films.

Just look at how Woola (the dog) is introduced in the BOOK versus the silly way in the movie. He originally saves JC from 2 breast white apes. the latter of which JC fells with one punch to the stomach and jaw. He also stops the green men from destroying wooola who is badly wounded... THAT is how they bond on the book... as the green men laugh at his compassion.

Read the books again and you will be incensed --- and continually ask yourself... WTF was Stanton thinking?


I again encourage you all to revisit the books... which sold over 1B copies and in over 28 languages by the 1980's.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Thanks Jeff. Although I would have to disagree that he wasn't a great writer...

Yeah, I didn't come across clearly with that. I think he was a great writer. What I was saying is that ERB often gets criticized for his writing, and really all there is to criticize is some of the structure in his earliest works -- hence why I made the comparison to Rowling.

I think the beautiful prose of the book still hold up today but it could seem dated... I think ERB was most likely abducted by aliens at some point... only because in the book the experience that John carter has in the cave is not at all unlike the experience that almost every single person has who has claimed to be abducted by greys. sudden paralysis with full mental capabilities.

Hehe... Could be.

fom 1912 to 1925... Total Recall borrowed extensively from the first book... which is probably why they ditched the atmosphere plant... but if marketed as one of the GRAND FATHERS of all science fiction, people would have finally given credit to the man who inspired (and was ripped off) by so many modern sic fi films.

For sure.

Read the books again and you will be incensed --- and continually ask yourself... WTF was Stanton thinking?

It's been several years since I've read them, but I was saying "WTF" a lot while watching the movie. According to my wife, I said it out loud a couple times. She's never read the books, but still didn't get into the movie. She's not a huge sci-fi person, but does like a good one now and then. She's as anxious to see Prometheus as I am. I've been thinking of reading these books again, mostly since learning of Disney making the John Carter movie, but there's so much other stuff on my "must read" list right now.

For those looking, the books are considered to be in the public domain these days. Best eBook resource seems to be Apple/iBooks as they have most of them, possibly all. There are a few options on kindle where you can get the first 5 for about $1, but reviews complain of crappy table of contents implementations and/or missing pages. I haven't looked much farther than that. I owned paperbacks of everything written by ERB at one point... Most of that was purged over the years. I still should have all the Barsoom novels in a box somewhere... maybe...

 

[Wayne Morellini]

I saw it sunday... I'm with Tim on this one. Disney/Pixar screwed the pooch here. Could have been great, but it's just meh... They butchered many primary story elements and potential sub-plots. Practically a bastard-child re-write of the first book, with several elements of the next 2 or 3 books crammed in there, at the expense of, well, a lot...

Would it be true to say they merely condensed the story and made it more pallitable for a mass audience to cover costs? Scifi tastes are not as conducisive to other people. You notice a number of scifi populars, apart from glam heroes princesses and vilkians like themes, are just horrow stories, and nit very good scifi? I write mine from a visual point of view like a movie, getting into the emotional side, I want to engage people from an emotional side too, as well as stun scientists and engineers.

Sure, the original Barsoom stories were published nearly 100 years ago and yes, much of it just doesn't hold up in the face of modern knowledge. We have to remember, back in the day, these were fantastic tales of what could be -- these were days when Mars was thought by much of the scientific community to have canals of flowing water and pop culture almost certified the existence of green men. Of course, the Barsoom stories take place on Mars, but in an alternate dimension. John Carter doesn't know how he arrived there specifically, but somehow entered a gateway while working (prospecting / mining for gold) in a cave.

I wasn't implying it was accurate, but how much for sight in, and futuristic, was his writing, given the time, in the actual books compared to the movie. I picked up it was unkikely that Barsoom was the real Mars, I thought it might have been in the past. When he came back to the cave the captain was rotted away, his cloths stiff, implyimg a lot more time had past than on Barsoom. I thought it might be possible they eventually leave basoom and arrive on earth in prehistoric times, to populate it, but this duplicate travel thing seems to put that out.

> As for the film itself, it was a real non-starter for me. The FX were pretty darn good and the casting was spot-on.

True.

And here comes the rhetorical question of the day... It applies to most all films adapted from literary works... WHY DO THEY *ALWAYS* HAVE TO TAKE A PERFECTLY GOOD STORY AND RE-WRITE IT??? I honestly can't see how anyone could have read this bastard-child-rewrite and thought it was better than the original, or even on the same level. ...Unless, they were not familiar with the originals? But I digress... money is often blind and likewise stupid.

I found the Dune movie, done with the author, sterile and a bit dull, compared to the latter TV series, that I watched on video. I don't know which was more true to the book, but the latter was better film.

Thanks Jeff.