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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Jim, please don't forget us!

There is nothing stopping you renting the right camera for the job, if your clients require an Epic for a shoot then RENT ONE, it's really very simple.

Philipe Ratton said:
Point taken Julio.

And thanks for the kind words.

Last month I lost two big jobs because the producers wanted a Red camera.

But not the Scarlet, the big one.

It pissed me off, I tried to convince them saying everything you guys are saying. No luck there.

And please don't get me wrong, I really love my Pazuzu and the images it makes.

And I really think my Scarlet is good enough for 90% of what I do(maybe more).

It's just that those lost jobs and this price cut made me start thinking too much.

And actually, I can buy an Epic without Jim's help, it is just a matter of me thinking maybe this whole situation isn't fair.

Just being selfish I guess.

You know what, I'm over it.
Lets shoot!
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Wouldn't it be nice if the Scarlet could be tweaked to shoot 4.5K? Shit yeah it would. Can it? Probably. Why are you Epic guys so damn defensive?
 
Adding 4.5K WS as Mike mentioned wouldn't hurt anyone (RED) or anything (current/future strategies, sales ect). I agree with the OP that technical gap and financial gap between Scarlet and Epic are just way out of balance now after Epi price cut.
I don't NEED 4.5K or DEMAND any upgrade of Scarlet, but it would be a nice move from RED and like mentioned wouldn't change anything business-like at all for them.

EDIT

and wouldn't it help RED when promoting their 'true' 4K (delivery) idea?
 
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Matthew Scott said:
Wouldn't it be nice if the Scarlet could be tweaked to shoot 4.5K? Shit yeah it would. Can it? Probably. Why are you Epic guys so damn defensive?
Click to expand...

I honestly don't even like to imagine the pandemonium if RED had reduced a camera to half the price of an epic that actually had better performance specs than an epic. Scarlet users have by and large I think taken the news extremely well and it's a credit to the Scarlet user community imho. I haven't read any demanding or flying off the handle. Just some reasoned questions about upgrade potential and a strong and very understandable desire to know the how and when Scarlet Dragon will impact their future.

If a Scarlet Dragon upgrade gives better performance than an epic. It will surely have to cost more than an epic. (or pandemonium) Making the upgrade at least 13K. And it must still also have lesser specs than an Epic Dragon. Or if it's the same specs as Epic Dragon, it will have to be the same overall cost (or again pandemonium). That would be 18k. Scarlet users having to wait a year or more, for a 13K - 18k upgrade in the reality of todays landscape that Jim and MR Moore so ably points out...

I feel distinctly non-psychic on this one. Though I will say while some see this new pricing asa betrayal. Personally I see it as testimony that RED is adhering to their vision and it gives me confidence. But I would also like to know sooner rather than later if Scarlet users will have a camera more powerful than a R1 anytime soon, certainly inside the next 12 months. I think that's a very reasonable question, that merits a reasonably prompt response.
 
It would be great to get 4.5K on Scarlet. I don't get if the RED One can do it, which supposedly has less computing power then a Scarlet, why it isn't enabled in the Scarlet yet... But I'm not a camera engineer.

If it would be possible in a firmware update, to get 25fps in 4.5K, it would be great. By RED's words, it would make Scarlet closer to a camera with real 4K output after debayering.
That being said, I think the tools are pretty much what they are, and everyone knew what the Scarlet could to going in when they bought hem.
 
Of course that he could rent one, but I see you are not renting one either. I think the point was to own and have the access to the camera, at any time, not only for the specific jobs.

Stephen Williams said:
There is nothing stopping you renting the right camera for the job, if your clients require an Epic for a shoot then RENT ONE, it's really very simple.
Click to expand...
 
Mathieu Ghekiere said:
It would be great to get 4.5K on Scarlet. I don't get if the RED One can do it, which supposedly has less computing power then a Scarlet, why it isn't enabled in the Scarlet yet... But I'm not a camera engineer.

If it would be possible in a firmware update, to get 25fps in 4.5K, it would be great. By RED's words, it would make Scarlet closer to a camera with real 4K output after debayering.
That being said, I think the tools are pretty much what they are, and everyone knew what the Scarlet could to going in when they bought hem.
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the highest resolution on a red one is 4k 16:9 .. the 4.5k (ish)mode has less pixels (count them).. so scarlet is on a par with the red one resolution wise, as it can also record 4k 16:9 .. the highest resolution the r1 records

ws is nice though!
 
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4.5k WS is 4480x1920 = 8.6mp per frame.
4k is 4096x2160 = 8.85mp per frame.
4k WS is 4096x1708 = 7mp per frame.
5k WS is 5120x2160 = 11mp per frame (I think).

Notice that 4k cropped/WS is 1.6+mp less than 4.5k, and all of that extra resolution gets crammed (supersampled) into a smaller area on the display (so it actually does make a noticeable difference.) But, yeah, a substantial jump per frame, which is the lowest common denominator, when going to 5k (and why I don't think 5k in any form would be possible on Scarlet-X).

...or is my math wrong?
 
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FOr all of those here that haven't heard, Jarred did speak ont his subject. They are waiting to see how the new boards come out before they can move forward with any sort of option for scarlet owners. The answer now is, wait and see. Once they figure out dragon etc. we WILL hear from them on the matter. For now be patient.

PS: I am with you on all requests and concerns, I am a scarlet owner, and have also lost plenty of jobs due to not having an epic, and the job also didn't budget for a rental. We all know how finicky clients can be, and how they want it all right now. If you seriously need an epic and soon, then sell the scarlet and pay the difference, Its not much ;)
 
Look guys, I'm sorry to say this, but I feel there's really no point in discussing all this in this thread and others. The big question is, if Red wants to upgrade the Scarlet. Everyone knows the Scarlets are more capable. We ain't dumb. I feel that Red cares mostly for the Epics. The Epics have been pushed to their limits. Don't know if there's more to get out their current hardware. The Scarlets are less capable, or locked to protect the Epic, whatever. They are cheap to sell out in packs. Well understood, Scarlet guys paid less, so they get less. It makes perfect sense. Guys, for Red it may have started as a passion, and it might still be, sure sure. But at the end of the day this business. They want to make this kind of distinctive difference between the two, and less difference in price to push the Epics. Having said that, I still feel that the huge difference in specs is a bit unfair though. Look at this old thing I found. Prices and specs of the original intentions for Epic and Scarlet. Quite interesting to see where the Scarlet guys are left with.

scarletEpic.jpg
 
That spec sheet is almost retro-futuristic. But it is interesting.
 
4.5K WS firmware unlock would have nothing to do with any upgrade/Dragon planning whatsoever. I could only see benefits

1. 5K would still be EPIC territory.
2. Spec gap would be closed a bit according to huge decrease of price gap.
3. RED shows they love Scarlet users :)
4. RED shows they are serious about their 4K delivery idea.


If it doesn't come, I wouldn't mind at all - but I really think it'll be a nice win/win move.
 
I love shooting on my Scarlet, but if there is any possibility for a bit of a tune-up, the following are the things I'd use tomorrow:

- WS modes (especially 4.5K at 25 fps - would really like that option to make more use of the sensor width)
- 3K at 50 fps (48 fps is OK but the extra 2 fps would just make me happy not to run risk of flickering practicals)

On the "fun to play with but not sure if I'd actually use it" list would be HDR at 25 fps.

An upgrade path would be nice for the future. I'm more interested in upgrade to MX Epic than Dragon Scarlet, but I haven't seen any Dragon footage yet of course!

Scarlet is a great camera. I got a good deal and it has been going well towards paying itself off, so I'm not complaining. But I surely would like to use more of the sensor width and get that extra 2 fps if the ASICs can stand it!

Cheers, Hywel.
 
Sorry, probably shouldn't wonder aloud because it will start freak-outs, but the asking for free stuff, the sense of entitlement, the familiarity, etc. On another forum one user invites Jim to sit down and have a beer like their best buds. Creepy. Obviously he wouldn't do it if he wasn't cool with it, which is great.
 
Guys why are you really considering 4.5K. 4.5K was the maximum that could be squeezed out of the RED One after MX upgrade. The Red One was Red's only camera at that time. It was their only "flagship". Now there's the Epic as the new flagship. Red will squeeze all they can from the current hardware, and then upgrade the hardware. Scarlet is the little brother. Without any doubt, it won't be pushed as much as the Epic even if it could. And that's more than fine. I think Red should make the Scarlet even better to kill the competition in the same price range, and at the same it fair to understand not to get too much out of it in order to protect the Epic's value.
 
I am very happy with my Scarlet now and look forward to any extra goodies RED has in store for it.
 
I'm sorry I was misunderstood. 4.5k was the max, Red one could get. I meant it like that since while I do not expect the Scarlet to match the epic, I expect the scarlet to do more. Like 5k, or at least 5Kws at 24fps. And pls don't tell that's Epic territory. Epic's 5K, 5 times faster.
 
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