Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

It‘s a great camera, but... some odd quality issues on #112

Valde said:
yeah, never assume.
i assumed non-americans and non anglo-saxons could have their RED lenses for professional use and i was SO wrong.

Sorry if I'm being a bit harsh but probably i have to cancel my order but i still cannot afford Cooke (or other cine lenses) and i feel a bit left alone in the desert.
The fact that RED lenses where available are part of my decision of ordering a RED camera in the first place, because everything i needed was within my budget.

Now i would like to know WHY RED decided to not support non-american and non anglo-saxon market, and also would like to know if a serious solution can be reached, (like third parties engravings) or if future "RED PRIMES" and/or "Red Zoom f2.8 CF 18 - 85mm" will have metrics option and/or both markings.

Just seeking answers to my questions.
Click to expand...

I'm in exactly the same boat as you are.
Still waiting for satisfactory answers.

I'm also missing a word from Jim on this. The scales problem affects about half of his customer base!

Please, Jim, I know you're listening...
 
Phil D said:
On a serious note, I do feel your pain, but wouldn't it still be cheaper in the long run for you to buy Red's lens and get the metric markings added, than go for the Cookes?
Click to expand...

you're right, that's why i was also asking about this, if there are third party manufacturers interested in adding metric markings (the stickers thing would work for me but not for my customers).

Another option would be used cine lenses, but having no experience on buying used lenses i find the idea pretty scary. Spending 6000$ on ebay on used lenses that i cannot try hands-on feels scary innit? :cold:

found people in this forum who own used cine lenses, anyone had experiences?
 
This is indeed a serious problem, about the metric system...

As people above said: RED lenses won't have the metric system, bot the lenses of other manufacterers are too expensive... what to do?

People here are RAISED with metres, not with feet...
For me, it's even difficult to just even try to guess a distance in feet, I've never done it...
 
From original post by Tim Le ~ "Also, stainless steel has a lower coefficient of thermal expansion than aluminum so I think it would be more temperature stable than aluminum?"

This is a pretty interesting point. Is the Red Body and PL mount made of the same grade materials? Do they have the same thermal expansion rates?
I recall that when the Sony F900 came out there were numerous backfocus problems due to the different expansion rates of the materials used in their mount system. Is this a potential problem or am I way off track and everything is sorted in this area?
 
FAVAMAN said:
From original post by Tim Le ~ "Also, stainless steel has a lower coefficient of thermal expansion than aluminum so I think it would be more temperature stable than aluminum?"

This is a pretty interesting point. Is the Red Body and PL mount made of the same grade materials? Do they have the same thermal expansion rates?
I recall that when the Sony F900 came out there were numerous backfocus problems due to the different expansion rates of the materials used in their mount system. Is this a potential problem or am I way off track and everything is sorted in this area?
Click to expand...

You are off track. But you can keep going if you like. Our mount is nothing like the Sony mount. We have tested thermal expansion and are very satisfied with the results... as I stated before. We would have used stainless if it was necessary. Stainless is just as easy to get as 7075 (maybe easier).

If you want us to consider making an optional (extra cost since it will not be part of our normal production) stainless mount for you, we'll be happy to consider it. We think you will see no difference except weight. Let us know what you want. We are all ears. I'd guess the stainless mount option would cost another $800-$100 or so for making a custom run. That is just a guess. I think it is a mistake, but we aim to please...

Jim
 
There seems to be very little effect of thermal expansion on collimation of a 35mm mount (Except maybe in extreme conditions). Unlike a 3 chip prism where all interocular distances are multiplied by 3 and the tolerances need to be much more precise.
 
I'm also missing a word from Jim on this. The scales problem affects about half of his customer base!
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, is that right? I just imagine that with the much larger market in the US the EU should make up like an 8th of the customer base. Unless Bollywood embraces the Red. Have Europeans gone Red crazy and made half the orders?

Just wondering.

Nick
 
Evin Grant said:
There seems to be very little effect of thermal expansion on collimation of a 35mm mount (Except maybe in extreme conditions). Unlike a 3 chip prism where all interocular distances are multiplied by 3 and the tolerances need to be much more precise.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reminder Evin. I 've still got to do a mind switch on RED and think of it as a non-film 35mm type camera (but sooo much more!).
I once sent an Aaton 35III to Antarctica for a whole year ~ no FFD probs at all.
 
arrinick said:
Just out of curiosity, is that right? I just imagine that with the much larger market in the US the EU should make up like an 8th of the customer base. Unless Bollywood embraces the Red. Have Europeans gone Red crazy and made half the orders?

Just wondering.

Nick
Click to expand...

There's more to the world than the USA and Europe!
Have you seen this? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Metric_system.png

Ok, maybe it's not half the customer base of RED but it's at least 25% I'm sure.

I just want to know WHY is there no metric scales. There's still no answer...
 
We'll give you an answer when we have one...

Jim
 
I was hopeful that sooner or later an answer would come from RED on the metric issue but since we still know nothing about the thinking or reasons behind this decision i decided to join big lebowski and Valde on their quest for the truth!

I am sure many people were shocked as i was yesterday when we first started to read this thread. The absence of metric markings on the lenses is to my European point of view at least crazy. To be honest, before yesterday i didn't even know that it could happen for professional cine lenses to be imperial marked only.

Almost all the lenses i have used for 16mm and 35mm had both systems on them and in some rare cases had only metric (much older sets).

I am waiting with anticipation for my RED in a couple of months and this crazy revelation will not make me change my decision to buy both RED zooms but i am certain that many non RED-believers who search for the slightest opportunity to fight the camera will soon have a reason to laugh on my face.

The RED team has done so many rights that it's difficult to start a fight on this subject but it is still something that to my mind at least is incomprehensible.

What were you thinking?

Miltos
 
Is there anyone out there that has developed an infrared laser for calculating distance that could convert back and forth? Maybe attached thru a Follow Focus and based on each lens? Just an idea off the top of my head...
 
I guess I understand a lot of peoples frustration out there but why so HELL bent on this issue? There are other options out there if you don't like that Red isn't using the metric system. You don't have to buy it. Some people here are acting as if the lack of metric makes the camera a total piece of shit now. Red has their reasons, I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing. If Red was out to deceive any of us, Jim would work for Sony and this thing wouldn't even exist.

Shit, we have a 4k digital-35 camera that was built from the fucking ground up against all odds.

I think people tend to forget how fucking bleeding edge this whole thing is- Red is always going to improve and try to make things better but they're never going to change your diapers, no matter how hard you cry.

this thread is dead now
 
I will take exception to your claim that all "professional" lenses have metric markings... I am holding my Cooke S4 32mm (new a few months ago) and it does NOT have metric focus marks. Actually, I don't think ANY new Cooke S4 has metric focus marks... and they are made in the UK.

Still have no answer on our future lenses.

Jim
 
Doesn´t Cooke produce both? Forgive me if I am wrong but from what I know, when you order Cooke lenses you choose metric or imperial.

Never the less: Jarred came clean early on in this thread and said there will be no metric scales on the current lenses (we can only speculate to why... but it will not help for now - apparently) but at least RED as per an official announcement (several actually) has said what they have to say, so I will live with that!

I would love to have my lenses in metric (my clients will demand it), so my solution will be to make stickers in photoshop, and have them printed in some very robust foil material and stick them above the imperial (this way I can ensure the correctness of every single markings myself) - that will do for me and my costumers.

I would have loved it if RED gave us an option, but to me it´s not the end of the world, the lenses still seem like a bargain to me!
 
It appears from the Arri website that Master Primes don't have metric focus marks... is that right? I see, I guess you order them one way or the other...

Jim
 
Jannard said:
I will take exception to your claim that all "professional" lenses have metric markings... I am holding my Cooke S4 32mm (new a few months ago) and it does NOT have metric focus marks. Actually, I don't think ANY new Cooke S4 has metric focus marks... and they are made in the UK.
Jim
Click to expand...

Like i said clearly this was just my limited knowledge of the situation that was enriched yesterday with this thread. I didn't make a statement that all professional cine lenses must have metric markings. Most of my experience so far was with Zeiss glass and anyway I still consider the RED lenses professional if that makes my point of view any clearer.

I will still buy both zooms but you have to agree that for us simple customers without any inside knowledge of how things are made at RED, this decision can melt the mind when you are searching for its logic.

It's never late to learn how to think in feet i guess... or educate our camera assistants to use RED's magic focus assist.
 
The master primes comes with both, it´s made to order. (apparently one can also switch from what I have read)

http://www.arri.com/infodown/cam/broch/mp_e.pdf

EDIT: In the metric world (or at least in Europe, ok Norway...) the focus pullers live and die by the metric scale, most do anyway, we have at least one very good american focus puller working here (in Norway)- he probably won´t mind imperial... (and a handful of others will swallow their pride and prentend to, but metric is the norm)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top