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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

It doesn't make sense...

V

Valentin Paris

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Hi everybody.

Yes. Again someone reacts about the new prices of the red cameras... I'm gonna try to explain as fast as I can.


I bought my Epic in second hand, so I will not cry because I paid the package a reasonable price even considering the new prices...But...

Today I was just SICK to think about all other red epic buyers, which bought their red epic cameras brand new the full price few months ago (especially the monochrome brain...)


Anyway, it is like that, nothing to do.


BUT, please the red team, just think about that :


It doesn't make sense to sell a Red epic brain 19000 USD when you sell a very old workflow card, the red rocket, for 4750 USD !


It represents 25% of the price of the camera ! It is ridiculous isn't it ?


It is the same for the other parts...Screen and everything...ESPECIALLY THE SSD.


Why it is still so much expensive ? One 128 SSD is about more that 1/10 of the Epic brain.


I repeat : It doesn't make sens at all.


Why did you not make a price drop on every accessories ? Why not on SSD ?


After said all what you said on the forum, like the first macintosh was very expensive and now for the same price...blablabla...

You were maybe talking about the time's action on technology ! Yes ! It works on every hi tech things : LCD tv, hard drive, computer, sensors. etc.


And so what ? It is not the same for the chipset on the red rocket ? Not the same for the SSD ? No ?


Yes it is !


I bought a 512 GO SSD for my macpro for 450 USD so why your 512 SSD is about 3900 USD ? Around Ten time the price of a crucial SSD ? What do you do on this ssd to have this huge price ? Is it gold inside ? What is the mystery ? Is it magical ? Is it sorcery ?


I think it is a great new for lot of people to know that they will buy an epic brain for 19000 usd but did you think about the early customers ?


What did they win to buy an Epic brain for 34500 USD ? Thanks to us to put lot of money on this camera, therefore, thanks to us to make RED alive !


Make a 45% price drop on a brain, and do not change the price of all the must have accessories, it is totally absurd.

You can explain and say : ok we don't make the red rocket, we don't make the SSD, so it is not from our factory ! It will still not be acceptable for me.


The good strategy would be to let the price enough high to make a price drop on screen, bomb evf, ssd, and everything else each customer must buy when they want a Red camera...


It would have done happy the early customers, as the new ones, happy...


Too late.


Too bad.
 
To sum up his long post:

Dear Red, why do you wish to make enough money to remain in business? Can you please sell everything at such thin margins that you'll be dead in 2 years, or even better at a loss so you're gone in less than 6 months?

-signed,
Someone who has never seen your books and has no clue how much it costs to run a business.
 
Valentin Paris said:
Hi everybody.
I repeat : It doesn't make sens at all.
Why did you not make a price drop on every accessories ? Why not on SSD ?
Click to expand...



Does it make sense when a new printer cost less than buying new ink recharge?
Or does it make sense to buy an espresso machine for nothing and then spend 10 time more in cafe capsule than you would have with a better cafe in grain?

B.
 
Red makes a good margin on accessories. Cameras drive accessories. Red goes after accessories copies.

Kinda makes sense to me.

And for some parts it is a closed ecosystem.

You buy into it or not.

The initial cost just got a bit lower.

All good...

Personally I hope RED stays in business for a while and if anything, price-controll and disruptiveness have been their signature.

Expect the unecpected, and have a camera if you can put it to good use!

Njoy the red ride!
 
This makes me think of game systems. Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, they all keep dropping the prices of their system, yet accessories and games remain at their initial price. It is the nature of the beast in my mind, a business can drop the price of their base product, making only a thin margin in profit(if any at all), knowing they will make money with accessories. Companies have to still make money and so does RED.
 
Red is allowed to make whatever money they want, as are we, as long as they do not lie. Please do not further devalue the gear we own.
 
dude the ssds ALREADY dropped in price....they are in fact cheaper then XDCAM SXS P2 and anything else you can name, per gb. Consumer SSD's do not get SUSTAINED read and write speeds fast enough for the red, this has already been discussed MANY times.

they never did lie, they can set any price they want. you raise the price, people whine, you lower the price, people still whine....its sort of a lose lose from their perspective....

I would be happy to trade up from my Scarlet to your Epic if your looking to down size. Also I think a Pix240 is a lot cheaper then a red rocket, and can get you proxies to edit in actual real time (besides when shooting off speed). so there are totally third party solutions to these problems. like i was saying in another thread, some people don't even buy redmags and capture solely on third party recorders...
 
Brian Merlen said:
like i was saying in another thread, some people don't even buy redmags and capture solely on third party recorders...
Click to expand...
I don't see the point to use a camera who capture raw files then.
Enjoy your Scarlet Dude.

B.
 
Valentin Paris said:
Hi everybody.

Yes. Again someone reacts about the new prices of the red cameras... I'm gonna try to explain as fast as I can.


I bought my Epic in second hand, so I will not cry because I paid the package a reasonable price even considering the new prices...But...

Today I was just SICK to think about all other red epic buyers, which bought their red epic cameras brand new the full price few months ago (especially the monochrome brain...)


Anyway, it is like that, nothing to do.


BUT, please the red team, just think about that :


It doesn't make sense to sell a Red epic brain 19000 USD when you sell a very old workflow card, the red rocket, for 4750 USD !


It represents 25% of the price of the camera ! It is ridiculous isn't it ?


It is the same for the other parts...Screen and everything...ESPECIALLY THE SSD.


....

Too bad.
Click to expand...

It makes sense when you consider that it might cost millions of dollars to design and test the ASICs that are in the Epic, but becomes very cheap to mass produce them once they are "done"

Part of all the prices for the EPIC's has been going to recoup those up front costs that RED had to put into Epic *long before they sold a single camera*
Now that cost is paid off, RED could (as Jim said)
1) Keep all the extra profits for themselves (hoping that newly announced cameras wouldn't kill their business off)
2) Pass on the savings on that part of the camera to future sales.

My understanding of the rocket (and I've never seen on) is that it's FPGA-based and the same thing doesn't happen there because FPGA's don't get similarly cheaper if you sell more of them (the price you pay by being able to upgrade/re-program FPGA's) so the same savings aren't available.

Same for camera mounts/LCD's .... they just don't have the same characteristics
As Jim mentioned, look at the concept of NRE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-recurring_engineering)
Epic brains have a large NRE compared to the per-unit ongoing costs whereas the other components don't .....

And regarding "high margins" on other components ... it's very easy to discount costs of development, testing, debugging, support etc. but they are very real and can easily cut into what initially look like very big margins .....
 
Have we also forgotten about Supply and Demand? I would expect that now that RED is able to move much quicker in their manufacturing their speed to Supply is boosted. With this sale I would expect a lot of new demand to come in from new purchasers for potential accessories going forward. This in return may reduce the cost of accessories going forward. Just have to be patient.
 
..It doesn't make sense ...redmedia=7.000 $ redrocket 5.000 $ camera stuff 8.000 $ so min. 20.000$ for extras and the camerabody cost only 19.000$ ?!
 
Man---SSDs droped in price as already mentioned and if a Red Rocket is too expensive for you, get a BT Red Rocket. Same with the Clutch. Got both BT and everything works fine. Dont know the problem here. You also forget, that this stuff remains useable, because of the interchangeable System. When they release Dragon, you will still be able to use your "old" stuff.


Manfred
 
me neither, but its the sole reason people like the Alexa, so I figure if shooting baked in is what they want, get a pix240 and call it a day, its cheap as hell

Brice Ansel said:
I don't see the point to use a camera who capture raw files then.
Enjoy your Scarlet Dude.

B.
Click to expand...
 
Nick Ambrose said:
It makes sense when you consider that it might cost millions of dollars to design and test the ASICs that are in the Epic, but becomes very cheap to mass produce them once they are "done"

Part of all the prices for the EPIC's has been going to recoup those up front costs that RED had to put into Epic *long before they sold a single camera*
Now that cost is paid off, RED could (as Jim said)
1) Keep all the extra profits for themselves (hoping that newly announced cameras wouldn't kill their business off)
2) Pass on the savings on that part of the camera to future sales.
Click to expand...


1) You are quite naive.

2) "Extra profits" could be spread over the eco-system.

3) Spreading the profits over the eco-system makes little economical sense, if you can get more people addicted by a cheaper entry price.
 
Tim Whitcomb said:
oops, I thought this was a Prometheus thread... :P
Click to expand...


Haha you make me laugh man ! Haha.

Anyway.

I still love my Epic, but again, I completely understand people who bought the epic the full price and have really bad feeling about the price drop.


With a price drop of 45% on the Epic Brain, and if you think that Red has more professional customers than indy customers, they gonna have lot of ennemies...

Have a look here : http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?88117-Feel-robbed

This guy bought with confidence. Why the Alexa has the same price now and not the red if you considere Red at the same level than Arri ?

Perfectly understand.
 
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