Issues

[Mark L. Pederson]

For the record - we have shot TONS of .r3d files with MANY DP's.

We have processed every possible way - REDALERT, REDCINE, TIFF, DPX, LOG, LIN, etc. etc.

We can NOT get the same high quality results that we get processing directly from .r3d in Scratch. Period.

 

[Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso]

Uploading R3Ds...

 

[Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso]

For the record - we have shot TONS of .r3d files with MANY DP's.

We have processed every possible way - REDALERT, REDCINE, TIFF, DPX, LOG, LIN, etc. etc.

We can NOT get the same high quality results that we get processing directly from .r3d in Scratch. Period.

Very interesting, can you provide some examples of this, please?

 

[M Most]

Very interesting, can you provide some examples of this, please?

Judging from my own experience, it's not so much the "processing" per se, it's the ability to color correct directly from the RAW files that makes the difference. And yes, I agree with Mark that the difference is significant.

Now, if only Gerk would get those autoscaling scaffolds working....

 

[Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso]

I´m sorry but there is no match here.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

There is no match as Macgregor says. All we want is:

People to get the best out of the camera!

If there are any issues we need to:

understand them, what causes them, and any other information that can help us. Forums can be very good for that.

Once we understand we need to be able to duplicate the issue. Once we can do that, we can formulate an answer / solution / whatever.

Graeme

 

[Rick Darge]

I'm really curious to see if Scratch handles Mac's noisy shots any better.. Thanks Mark for offering to test that

 

[david farland]

This is one of the most helpful threads I've seen in a good while Mac, can't thank you enough for your contributions/openess.

This is typical Sanjin on a serious thread trying to draw attention by causing trouble as usual.
Sorry Macgregor, but along with the serious posts, you have to put up with the rubbish ones.

Cheers,

 

[John Cordell]

And the most horrible one:

Shot at 2K ISO 1000, or RedCine exposure +1.64. 3500ºK. Sorry to say this, but we cannot use this image. Obviusly the 2K crop magnification makes things worse than in 4K mode. There´are blue noise dots everywhere...

I've seen very similar things with my camera to the above pic. In fact, I reported it as a problem to Red about three days after the camera came out. In my case, the problem turned out to be that I had done an auto-white balance (on the camera) and it decided to set the tint value in the negative 95 to 99 range. Something about the math at those values causes giant chunks of blue noise to present themselves.

Any chance that messing with tint in RedAlert would help this image? I have some images with very similar noise patterns that go away when tint is moved into a more normal range.

 

[Álex Montoya]

This is typical Sanjin on a serious thread trying to draw attention by causing trouble as usual.

Yeah, Sanjin. Post some photos.

 

[Shawn Nelson]

For the record - we have shot TONS of .r3d files with MANY DP's.

We have processed every possible way - REDALERT, REDCINE, TIFF, DPX, LOG, LIN, etc. etc.

We can NOT get the same high quality results that we get processing directly from .r3d in Scratch. Period.

Whoa, this concerns me, big time. You mean that Red Alert/Red Cine are sub-standard for even basic R3D processing?

I knew that Scratch was "the man" for final CC, conform, etc., but I'd expect to be able to at least get the cleanest possible image straight from Red Alert/Red Cine.

 

[marsRover]

Whoa, this concerns me, big time. You mean that Red Alert/Red Cine are sub-standard for even basic R3D processing?

I knew that Scratch was "the man" for final CC, conform, etc., but I'd expect to be able to at least get the cleanest possible image straight from Red Alert/Red Cine.

Agreed.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

For the record - we have shot TONS of .r3d files with MANY DP's.

We have processed every possible way - REDALERT, REDCINE, TIFF, DPX, LOG, LIN, etc. etc.

We can NOT get the same high quality results that we get processing directly from .r3d in Scratch. Period.

Mark,

Really? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me... can you outline render settings in SCRATCH vs. REDCINE?

Tx,

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

 

[Rick Darge]

Whoa, this concerns me, big time. You mean that Red Alert/Red Cine are sub-standard for even basic R3D processing?

I knew that Scratch was "the man" for final CC, conform, etc., but I'd expect to be able to at least get the cleanest possible image straight from Red Alert/Red Cine.

I echo that.. I'm all for the best equipment.. but I can't afford Scratch on my own.. :detective2:

 

[jbeale]

In my case, the problem turned out to be that I had done an auto-white balance (on the camera) and it decided to set the tint value in the negative 95 to 99 range. Something about the math at those values causes giant chunks of blue noise to present themselves.

Very interesting, I think this warrants further exploration. Apparently "white balance" is not as simple as it might appear. I do think it must change noise level... AFAIK, the WB process changes the gains of the R,G,B channels separately to make the image match the target color. So if you shoot in very warm light (very little blue) and try to achieve "normal" WB, it means huge gain on blue channel, hence lots of noise there. If you use a blue filter on the camera, that just means more gain on every channel (unless you can use more lights, faster lens etc. to compensate for the filter factor).

 

[Bill Goehring]

We have processed every possible way - REDALERT, REDCINE, TIFF, DPX, LOG, LIN, etc. etc.

We can NOT get the same high quality results that we get processing directly from .r3d in Scratch. Period.

Yep, very concerning for those of us on low budgets expecting to process in RED software and finish in FCP/DVD SP.

 

[Frank Weeks]

This is one of the most helpful threads I've seen in a good while Mac, can't thank you enough for your contributions/openess.

Let me echo David here Mac.
I spend much time on this forum, searching for this kind of thread.

Great Information!

Thanks
Frank

 

[John Cordell]

I suspect one of the main culprits in the variance of noise levels in the camera is the color temp of the light source. I found that when shooting under tungsten light the camera needs quite a bit of light to keep the blue channel from going really noisy. In daylight it's hard to get a noisy image. But under tungsten it's quite possible, and my sense is that the camera likes a little more light under those conditions. It's much better with ISO 160 or 250 than 320. But under daylight, ISO 500 or even higher delivers very usable images.

Of course tolerance for noise is a personal taste issue, so take that into account when interpreting my comments.

 

[Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso]

John, you are quite right about the tint level changing the noise color.
But i wanted to leave the footage as original as possible when posting it.

That shot has a default tint of -6. If you take it to +6, for example, you reduce a bit the noise color saturation, but the patterns remain there.

Once again, my post was not about noise or grain, which still i think is great for 800-1000 iso, but more about pattern noise and blue channel noise and ways to improve this.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Whoa, this concerns me, big time. You mean that Red Alert/Red Cine are sub-standard for even basic R3D processing?

I knew that Scratch was "the man" for final CC, conform, etc., but I'd expect to be able to at least get the cleanest possible image straight from Red Alert/Red Cine.

NO.

I am sure Graeme & co. will explain that you can in-fact manipulate the images in those applications at the same quality - we have a Scratch suite with calibrated CRT - and that's how we do color - and how we know how to get results. I will say that REDCINE beta builds have shown issues that "lie" - as in - you see a "problem" that is NOT really there. that's why it's a BETA - and the website says "don't use on commercial project".

I am just saying - we are hitting all these apps pretty hard - and IMO right now, I don't know how the hell you can work in a high-end way and deliver on a deadline any other way - I suspect in a matter of weeks - it may be a different story. I can only comment on what is NOW.