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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

ISO... today

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Jannard said:
Today, we believe the RED ONE camera should be rated at ISO 500.

A bit depends on the scene.

Jim
Click to expand...

I believe the key to Jim saying ISO 500 is..

Jarred Land said:
You just need to remember to protect the highlights, and after allot of shooting the last couple weeks 500 seems to be a pretty good average in the locations we have been .
Click to expand...

With motion, often unlike stills, latitude is so very desirable. Rateing any Canon digital SLR at iso 500 and shooting raw would allow you around a couple of stops highlight recovery..

I suspect in a studio with lots of time and a simple setup iso 500 would not produce the cleanest results...iso200 or where ever it bottoms out would be cleaner..

I nearly alway rate still camera's up a bit (outside of a studio) and look forward to being able to do the same with Red...

In truth 'I can't wait' I'm sick of HDCAM.. and in the UK you can't seem to get hold of an F23 I wouldn't be suprised if I can hire a red (off an early number holder) before I actually get to shoot with a f23..

I would be very interested what is the lowest iso you can reasonably use with Red?

regards

Michael (2 red's not coming early enough) Lindsay
 
Moir..

Moir said:
When shooting RAW with a DSLR, I believe it is more usual to actually do the opposite and "expose to the right" (of the histogram).
Click to expand...

The problem with that stills approach is twofold:

Things move and shot to shot consistency..

exposing to the right will not work with typical drama content.. it will work with some stuff though

regards

Michael
 
Shooting by Firelight

Shooting by Firelight

This is great news.

I'm shooting a feature next year about a group of people stranded in the desert by an airplane crash. It will involve a lot of campfire shots that could be tricky because there isn't supposed to be any source of man made light.

ISO 500 might enable me to shoot with only the light of the fire.

I'm excited!

-Thor
 
correct in post

correct in post

Michael Lindsay said:
Moir..



The problem with that stills approach is twofold:

Things move and shot to shot consistency..

exposing to the right will not work with typical drama content.. it will work with some stuff though

regards

Michael
Click to expand...

but isn't that the point of raw-to correct every shot in post. unless i'm shooting rgb, i expect every raw shot to be at least a little inconsistent (even among multiple takes). they might not look inconsistent in the adjusted evf or lcd but i would need to tweak every shot in post for exposure and color whether it's exposed to the left or right. at least that's my understanding of the raw digital cinema sensor workflow.
 
Jannard said:
Today, we believe the RED ONE camera should be rated at ISO 500.

A bit depends on the scene. But we are rating at ISO 500 for everything here on the "Wanted" set.

Jim
Click to expand...


Yes!

Exactly what I was hoping to hear!!
This is wonderful.

Congratulations!!! - Great work!:biggrin:
 
Yuval Shrem said:
Yes!

Exactly what I was hoping to hear!!
This is wonderful.

Congratulations!!! - Great work!:biggrin:
Click to expand...

Hi,

It's really not surprising from looking at David's Stumps last November. I wrote at the time (on another forum) that I would rate the Red camera at 500 asa giving about 1/2 stop headroom to the apparent 320 asa native speed.

Stephen
 
ibloom said:
It seems at first like there is an advantage to using analog gain adjustments, despite the increase in noise.

IBloom
Click to expand...

But I am more concerned with a negative gain adjustment, which on most cameras means a decrease in noise and less need for ND filters. I am still not entirely sure if this logic works on the Red.

Good question regarding whether the EVF/LCD reflects gain adjustments.

Phil
www.artbeats.com
 
Phil, my understanding at the moment is this... if you choose ASA 320 to 500 and your scene is lit to that level accordingly, the RED will exhibit the minimum grain or noise possible for the sensor. If I'm correct, it's just that simple.

As someone else posted, if the camera has a -db function (like CineAlta 900's) it just means they had the sensor wiggle room at or before the processing stage in the first place.

As to the gain/white balance/look visible in the EVF, I've asked this before and the answer has always been "yes".
 
wigby said:
but isn't that the point of raw-to correct every shot in post.
Click to expand...

yes (kind of)... You have a int wide with a person and a very hot window... You 'shoot to the right'.. T11 to hold the window.. push in for the CU and 'shoot to the right' T2.8.... I wouldn't want to do this leaving the fix to post. I may compromise a bit and balence up a stop or two in post but a true 'to the right' exposing technique is for still.. IMHO..
 
to the right

to the right

Michael Lindsay said:
yes (kind of)... You have a int wide with a person and a very hot window... You 'shoot to the right'.. T11 to hold the window.. push in for the CU and 'shoot to the right' T2.8.... I wouldn't want to do this leaving the fix to post. I may compromise a bit and balence up a stop or two in post but a true 'to the right' exposing technique is for still.. IMHO..
Click to expand...

i agree. i think you have to take every shot, both raw and rgb individually just like tweaking every raw shot in post too. and there will always be very dark locations (at least on low budget stuff i shoot) that you just cannot go any further to the right with, but i still see a lot (maybe 2/3 of all shots) of instances where you can implement slight overexposure in digital cinema. anyway, i guess i'll find out when i start testing my red.
 
Spinning wheels

Spinning wheels

Evin Grant said:
Hmmm, I think they call that an ND Filter:matrix:

But honestly I'm not sure what all the hub bub is about NDs. They just go along with the territory. If you hate them so try the Shing Ray variable ND filter.
Click to expand...




The filter wheel is one of the few features found in modern TV camcorders that is worth keeping.


Advantages of interior filter wheel;

Preserves filter, no scraches!
No dust no cleaning!
Fastest implimentation of filters for doc work and run gun.
Enables fast easy viewing and comparison of DoF characteristics of different Tstops on monitor (e shutter can do this too if its easy to activate)
Internal filter will work with any lens that fits on camera, regardless of the size of the front element.
No undesirable reflections to worry about or to solve.
No undesirable edge fringing when using ultrawide lenses
Protects sensor.
Motorized filter wheel is a boon for remote head operation, underwater and aerial use.
Frees up space in the mattbox.


Fabricating one for a large sensor may be problematic, but I'd pay a few grand more for one.


Perhaps in RED Two?


Mike Brennan
 
I usually shoot 50asa outside so 500 is going to need some big big ND. I prefer not to stack if possible. Has anyone ever done a meter test to find what kind of ND you get from welding glass?
 
A 3-stop ND filter, which is pretty common, gets you from ASA 500 to about ASA 64. I don't think welding glass is exactly "neutral", I'd expect a color shift.
Also, common welding glass might be "shade 8" through "shade 14" which means 8 ... 14 stops. For example a shade 12 glass (12 stops) gets you from 500 down to ASA 0.12 which is a little bit too dark, unless you are photographing sunspots.
 
Moir said:
When shooting RAW with a DSLR, I believe it is more usual to actually do the opposite and "expose to the right" (of the histogram). So long as the highlights are not blown, it's arguably better to darken the image in post than lighten it and increase noise.
Click to expand...

Michael Lindsay said:
Moir..
The problem with that stills approach is twofold:
Things move and shot to shot consistency..
exposing to the right will not work with typical drama content.. it will work with some stuff though
regards
Michael
Click to expand...


Graeme Nattress’ advice on that:


1) shoot RAW. That makes digital cinema a lot more easy to use.

2) expose correctly. Expose to the right - just like you do with a DSLR.

3) SNR = Dynamic range. You place the white clipping point where you want it, and let the shadows fall where they fall.

Graeme Nattress
11/20/06
DVX User RED forum
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=78640



An excellent tutorial on “exposing to the right”

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml

It's talking about DSLR cameras--but the principles are the same.

Graeme Nattress
(same thread)
 
jbeale said:
A 3-stop ND filter, which is pretty common, gets you from ASA 500 to about ASA 64. I don't think welding glass is exactly "neutral", I'd expect a color shift.
Also, common welding glass might be "shade 8" through "shade 14" which means 8 ... 14 stops. For example a shade 12 glass (12 stops) gets you from 500 down to ASA 0.12 which is a little bit too dark, unless you are photographing sunspots.
Click to expand...

Hi,

A ND 2.1 (7 stops) will be more useful IMHO than an ND 0.9 (3 stops) unless you want to shoot everything @ T17 on a sunny day.

Stephen
 
The term " exposing to the right " can be very misleading. I think the term should be "exposing a teenie tiny bit to the right without going to far because you don't want to blow the highlights and it won't make that much difference in the noise level anyway ," Maybe that is a bit wordy. Seriously though, you have to temper your interpretation of a histogram with some common sense as it relates to the scene in front of you. Sometimes you want an area to be blown out and if you go strictly by the histogram you will be fooled.
Aloha
-A
 
BG scoop

BG scoop

I am looking forward to shooting some stuff 3 stops over, with some on camera filtration and then shooting the same scene 1 stop under and pushing it in post then comparing them. Every "look" has a different goal and sometimes I want to limit the parts of the frame that have detail or simply control the edges of the blown portion for a softer or harder feel.

Battlestar Galactica is shot on the CineAlta (F950s I think) with a lot of overexposed scenes. I have always been surprised at the hue and saturation levels in the highlights since the CineAltas typically read differently. I have often wondered if they expose closer to normal and then push it in post to hold some chroma above the knee. Perhaps they just run unusual settings for gamma, knee, etc. Anyone know the scoop?

I anticipate that the RedOne will have a totally new rolloff characteristic from the highlights and I am wondering how that will affect the results from familiar filters?
 
so are we saying that I wont be able to shoot 100, 200, or 400 ISO with this camera becausse the lowest I can set it is 500?
 
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