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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is this the bottom line on support?

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Sounds like an interesting venture. What is the name of your company? I would be interested to check out a website?
 
You're probably not getting anything out of them because they have nothing to give you, seeing as they are still prototyping the Scarlet/Epic. Keep in mind they are still only showing renders and photos that are 2 generations behind.
 
Right. I do think they should be a bit more on the ball concerning contact. But yes, I am a bit angry I didn't get past the front desk. We did as much to find the proper channels as I think was appropriate.

We are definately not Apple. We just want to stick their product in eighty of our products. A drop in the bucket.

We knew the status of Scarlet was loose, but how difficult can it be to get a weight and some physical data on a product due out in a few months? If they have not locked down those parameters at this point, a summer release seems like a pipedream.
 
Somehow it does seem odd that you all have to take the time out of your day to educate me on subjects that Red should be more than equiped to answer.

I do appreciate the effort
 
Kevin,

I know where you are coming from and it can be frustrating at times when the other person on the other end of the line simply doesn’t get it, but I always try to keep the big picture in mind.

I find with European firms I can get to talk to the head of product development very quickly, even organizations that do not have dedicated application engineers. So for example I got the head manager for product development from a cold stand still at Dasault Systems within two days, two phone calls and three e-mails. Ironically it took me longer with SolidWorks, and we had an absolutely hideous time with Siemens PLM in the U.S. Never the less, if it’s important I never give up and if a door closes I use a window, there are always ways.

As you know especially in the industrial sector volume is everything, and even though if things work out and that this will mean millions of dollars of revenue to the vendor I try not to dangle this carrot especially if there are alternate solutions. I usually say the expected volumes are a tenth of what they really are. This gives you more freedom and more of a buffer zone and keeps the horny sales managers off your back. I prefer to judge a company to see how they are when millions of dollars are not on the table.

However in the case of RED everyone wants access and time is expensive for everybody. It’s simply not possible for them to handle every application and they don’t have a public dedicated applications engineer. Given that they use (as I am told) ProE as their CAD they may only have solid models anyway, they may not have a “dumb” mesh or surface model to give you. From their perspective I’m sure they would think, “well why don’t they just buy one” do the engineering that you need and then sell the camera?

As much respect as I have for SONY I really don’t think there is a cat’s chance in hell of SONY delivering a 4k and 5k camera system any time soon and definitely not anywhere near the price point of RED. I strated out in Aerial photogrammetry and for us resolution is everything. I honestly don’t think that SONY will head in the 5k direction it’s just not in their blood. $400K will buy you twenty RED ONEs, how many SONY F35s can you get for that, bearing in mind that you may have to fly more passes due to lower (effective) resolution of the SONYs?

Sounds like a cool project.

Cheers,
Eric
 
Kevin J McDonald said:
Hi,
We need either a surface model of the system, or physical dimensions in-depth enough to model ourselves. We also need mass information and center of mass locations, connection points, etc.

Thanks
Kevin
Click to expand...

Hi Kevin

Sorry you've been frustrated, but I suspect that RED's representative you've been in contact with isn't being deliberately evasive or untruthful - if I understand you correctly you are specifically interested in Scarlet?

Scarlet is a work in progress which is likely changing daily if not hourly in specifications and design if the progress of RED One development is anything to go by (compare RED One monster breadboard prototype "Frankie", initial concept renderings and the final product). The renderings so far are just concepts - 3D doodlings in a way!

Part specifications, physical dimensions, masses, CGs will all be changing constantly or aren't even known or thought about yet.

If it's RED One you're talking about, then you might like to PM Jarred Land directly and let him know more specifics about your project.

If you just want specific dimensions then we REDusers can probably help if you point out what measurements you want. Maybe draw some dimension arrows on a picture of RED and someone (if not myself, I'm pretty busy at the moment!) will post what those dimensions are.

:)
 
Once burned, ...

Once burned, ...

My perception is that RED is wary of anyone reverse engineering their products. Heck, somebody broke into their offices and stole drawings, protos and the like a couple of years ago and I doubt they've forgotten that experience.

You may be 100% legit, I don't know you and I do not mean to imply anything else. That said, if I were RED, I would not share certain types of information about my products with anyone as SOP.
 
Eric. Right on all counts. I just spent the last 5 years in Europe, and have had to get used to dealing with the disconnect we have here. Although, as you say, its a bit of a crap-shoot what response you get just about anywhere. I've been lucky for the most part and usually get what I want.

Volume is a fraction of what I stated, as a matter of fact. The reality is difficult for me to beleive, so I just threw out a number. But thats neither here, nor there.

Obviously, we can't buy the camera, so just getting some simple data seemed reasonable. You can imagine the problem we have finalizing an aircraft design when we have no idea what we are hanging off-center of the CG.

You're likely right about Sony, but I have been around long enough to not be surprised by whats around the corner. Its as likely that an emerging technology or process could leap-frog tomorrow, what seems a impenetrable Wave today

The Red is so attractive to us because we have a platform with inertial stabilization so advanced that we can hold position well enough to read the corrosion path on a 5mm bolt from 3 meters away. But for that, we need the rez.
 
Kevin,

I have to say I view all of your posts with a LOT of mistrust. You do not write like a person with 30 years experience in anything, except posting you have 30 years experience. Allow me to back up my position:

1: It would seem to be obvious to me that if you are going to approach a company and ask for things from them, you would first introduce yourself in detail, provide a website, and show you are someone to be taken seriously. (Your profile shows no website, no email, and a google search of your name only brings up a Lawyer currently up on charges)
2: Even on this thread, you express anger for a compay who does not give you what you ask for, you say they just lost 400k in sales, and yet no one knows what the hell you are talking about.
3: If you had done your research carefully, you would have tried to call Jarred Land on the phone directly and follow that up with an email. Intead you wrote blind into RED and was upset that you were not taken up the food chain, even though they really had no idea who they were talking too.
4: As James said, your letter ended on a very snippy note.. Guys who run businesses that are successful for 30 years usually don't lose control like this.
5: Airing this situation publicly has basically torpedoed any help you would get from RED.. This goes against you goals.. I suspect the Post IS your goal, not the information, or the information was not that important to begin with. As I said, not the actions of a 30 year pro, unless you are a 30 year BAD pro.

I'm shocked, that after 30 years of business you do not have proper respect for the amount of crooks and idiots running around the internet. If you are going to start a business relationship, with anyone these days you need to provide some serious information on yourself, your company, and past successes in order to make people feel that working with you is a good idea.

Now then, perhaps you DID give this to RED, and you simply chose to hold it from the Forum.. If that is true then I SINCERELY APOLOGIZE. But you cannot blame me for being careful here cause I've met too many trolls who simply want to complain and give themselves large titles to do it with.

I am very happy RED did not send you any information if you failed to convince them of who you are. It shows that the peeps at RED are not idiots.

So then... How about a little background sir (Couple links, some source material NOT written by you), that way I can sit down and put my foot in my mouth.. Or hands, as the case may be.

have a wonderful week sir.. Mine sucks pretty bad so far.

Jay
 
Just to be clear again. We are ONLY interested in mass, CG and dimensions. But as you say, Scarlet is far less developed than we were aware. I beleive that Red One is too massive, although I've not seen those specs.
 
What can I say Jay? They have my email. It points to my site. I am a bit of a jerk at times, and a search on my name proves little. I walked away from my last corporate job a few months ago, I am still listed on the website. http://www.detektdesign.com/team.aspx

As I said, we could not find ANY contact data. IT WAS LEFT TO ME TO CONTACT THE ONLY EMAIL I COULD FIND!
 
No offense Kevin but you sound completely unprofessional. With all of the whining and pasting what are obviously meant to be private email communications on the public forum for all to see, I'm not surprised RED chose to ignore you. If you haven't noticed they are doing just fine on their own and you as some would-be entrepreneur/start-up need them a whole lot more than they need you. Camera stabilization systems are a dime a dozen these days and yet all the other brands out there some how work without getting proprietary design data from the manufacturer. It's called "3rd party" for a reason- you're on your own.

And that's nice that you claim you can put 400K in their pocket but I find that hard to believe when you can't even put together $17 grand to buy your own camera nor even $300 to rent one for a day. Yet you somehow expect full CAD drawings of the camera direct from RED? :clown2: If you expected some sort of public outrage to get you 'IN' with RED by airing your petty grievances on this board, you came to the wrong place.

I suggest you take a deep breath, calmly collect yourself, apologize to RED and REDuser.net for acting like such a little troll and go figure out a way to get a camera that doesn't involve RED turning over the CAD versions of their property to you because you whined loudly- because that ain't ever gonna happen.

-Noah
 
Good luck on the models. We worked with RED for over a year and never got a model. Right now would be to early in the process anyway...you would be wasting your money and time developing anything. In all fairness to RED its their time and money that was spent developing the model as it is. Might have to wait and take the time to model the real thing later.
 
Thanks to all who had some constructive ideas.
For the others, I'd suggest getting a life
 
Kevin,

Are you an engineer/designer?

Would be very interested in a stabilized platform that can hold forty arc sec's for our work. For terrestrial work we use high res encoders and precision bubble levels (like a digital theodolite) to eliminate image restitution (bundle adjustment) for our cameras but system must ultimately be referenced to a total station.

Angular orientation is the most important thing for us, would be interested in your platform, feel free to PM some contact details so when you are ready to roll out we would be interested in the platform.

How long (assuming no violent jolts) can your system hold the precisions you are speaking of?

Don’t worry about lack of web presence, we have many patents in the works and we rather not have the competition know what we are up to until our first products are rolled out either. Good ideas are stolen all the time, we would rather appear fully formed out of nowhere rather than have our competitors reverse engineer our novel methods.

(seriously guys if you wanted to "reverse engineer" the camera you would just go out and buy one (assuming a RED1)).

We also made rough CAD models of some of the new Scarlet and Epics, early on when Jim posted the first pics they were kind enough to put approximate dimensions on them, and the cameras are of a simple form not difficult to model or guess their mass and Cof G. Standard mounts pin down dimensions too, you get the idea...
 
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