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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is this the bottom line on support?

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Kevin J McDonald

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We have had a difficult time connecting with RED, and from what contact info is available, we are very disappointed in the response. Below is the thread of communication. Which we find very disturbing.

VPI - We are soon to start testing a commercial aerial imaging platform designed from the start to carry this technology. Would it be possible to aquire physical data for the cam? Ideally, we would like a CAD surface model with specifications for mass and CG, connection locations and an idea of what the minimum physical configuration might be.

I appreciate your response

Red - Hi There, Thank you so much for your email and interest in RED! Unfortunately, we do not have any models of our camera at this time. However, there are a number of resources that may be of help to you. Our RED forum at www.reduser.net is full of information and many RED owners and users post their projects and pictures of their camera. The FAQ section on our website, www.red.com/FAQ ,is another great source to obtain information including the dimensions of our camera.

Thanks again for your interest and we wish you the best of luck. If you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to ask.


VPI - Hello Chaia,
Thank you for your response. Unfortunately, when a project like ours is in the design phase, it is very difficult to move forward with such sketchy information. We have been through all the resourses available on your site prior to my request, and are currently stalled for the technical information we have requested.

Without specific details, we are forced to consider alternatives for the system, and with an expected production of eighty units in '09, it is a serious matter to switch intentions at this time.

If you can think of a more informed course for us, I would appreciate it.

Red - Unfortunately, at this time we are unable to provide you with the necessary information. I apologize for this inconvenience.

Best wishes,

VPI - Must be nice to so easily discount 400K in sales, at such a difficult time for most business. We'll deal with Sony

Red - No response

Is this what we should expect?
 
I don't know much about it but it seems a little odd (and half-cocked) to proceed with designing and building a system designed to carry Red Cameras without actually having one at your disposal. (you could always rent one and carry out a survey for the data you require) - the responses from Red seem, to me, to be professional and courteous.

Your responses to their responses seem a mite petulant to me.

However I wish you luck in your endeavours.
 
Why would we do that? We are developing a system that will put 400K in Red's pocket. Sony trips over themselves to support applications. Going so far as to send dummy plastic and engineering data.
 
I think our request was very reasonable. Given that I have been doing this for thirty plus years and have rarely had to go beyond the first contact before being redirected to someone with answers.
 
And with respect, we don't need to have one in our hands (Scarlet is not available to our knowledge), we just need the data. We know the capability
 
Hi,
We need either a surface model of the system, or physical dimensions in-depth enough to model ourselves. We also need mass information and center of mass locations, connection points, etc.

Thanks
Kevin
 
Difficult to know how to answer that.
3K, 5K, 6K sensors, compact, modular?
We can also read.

I'm sorry, I find this a bit much.
 
Kevin,

I was interested in your application.

I am a software developer and photogrammetric engineer. We have software for clean 3d extraction and other techniques from stereographic imagery (still and dynamic) ,stereo cinemagraphic as well as high res metric stills. In the next couple of months we will be building SolidWorks models of REDONE cameras and determinations of CofG etc. aswell to help design our own side by side style stereo recording rigs, where CofG is also important. We are planning to rent or borrow a camera for the day and then do close range photogrammetric recordings of the camera and then build 3d texture mapped models and geometry of the camera. The Camera is largely of a prismatic form so the determination of various lines of balance for CofG should be pretty easy.

Is this something you would be interested in?

I can understand why RED might be reticent to hand out CAD models of their camera. We design high precision medium format, true digital metric camera systems, and I personally would be reticent to hand out models of these as well without cultivating some sort of relationship as well as providing strict agreements and paperwork limiting the exact scope of use. Even if we “leant” you some reverse engineered models of the REDONE the scope of usage would have to be very tightly defined just to cover our own butts! (I don’t think RED would be very happy if there were rogue 3d models of their camera floating about). For SONY it’s a very different situation. Red is mainly geared up for the flick business, not so much for external technical applications (at least not yet).

As someone who works in many different industries sometimes you can get organizations to really roll out the ”red” carpet and sometimes you find that they really don’t understand the implications of your application or are simply not able to provide the access you may require (i.e. they are simply not structured that way). Sometimes you have to swallow your pride and play the game especially if you believe the best technical solution may require you to go cap in hand.

Does the electronic rolling shutter of the RED ONE affect the kind of imagery/data that you want? Would a camera with an electronic global shutter also be a consideration? Would be interested to learn what SONY offering you consider as an equivalent to REDONE?

Kevin where are you based?

Cheers,
Eric
 
Hey Kevin,

Put the ego aside and do what you need to do to finish your project. RED's not going to give you what you're used to. Improvise, overcome, adapt. You've got 30 years of experience.

Now, you can rent for as cheap as $300 a day. Either someone on the boards or craigslist. All the best.
 
Kevin J McDonald said:
I think our request was very reasonable. Given that I have been doing this for thirty plus years and have rarely had to go beyond the first contact before being redirected to someone with answers.
Click to expand...

Why are you asking the front line of customer service for what is essentially a B2B business proposal?

Sounds like you need to try to schedule a meeting with somebody inside Red, not email technical support. I'd think this is common sense.

Even if it's not a real B2B situation, appreciate that not all camera companies just give out what is essentially development info so somebody else can go make a new product out of their own product.

Sorry, not much sympathy here.
 
Hi Eric,
Thanks for the response.
Regarding Red: My impatience and surprise has little to do with the results of my inquiry, and everything to do with the flat zero response. Normally, the first contact should have moved me up the ladder to someone in a position of authority. This was very poorly handled on Red's part.

On the CAD model: I'm with you on the reluctance, and I've of course run into both ends of the spectrum regarding proprietary elements of various designs. I did however, specifically asked for a surface model, implying that we are not interested in the mechanics. We also use Solidworks, but have little desire to model up something that we should, by cooperation, be able to get with little effort.

I can't discuss the end-user profile, but I can say that we have an extremely advance aerial platform that requires the flexibility of the Red system. The Sony option is not our desire, as it is less than idea for the application, but we are willing to consider it as we have had very good cooperation with them on other projects, and expect this would be no different. And the reality for us is simple; by the time we are fully tested, Sony will likely have a product emerging that may compete with Red. That of course would put us on the fast-track for a colaboration.

I am surprised that other developers are finding it nessisary to do this basic math also. It really puts me off the idea of using Red in some ways. As nice a concept as it is, it is only temporary, till the competition ups the ante.

Cheers,
Kevin
 
Hi,
It is B2B. Have you tried to get a contact for B2B from Red? Not so easy
 
Luckaly, I don't need the sympathy. If you had read the original thread, you'd know we are not asking for anything secret
 
Eric, The design lab is on Maui.
I have to admit, I did not approach this as professionally as I should have. I fully expected to be kicked upstairs immediately. Then, we could have gone through the paperwork process, or moved in a different direction.
 
Ha ha, Try getting a protocol doc or even a department at samsung, sony, etc.

Sounds like you didn't get past the front desk (I believe that would be Chaia I met at the front desk) which means that she probably didn't understand what you were asking for. It's usually takes a little bit of hunting and effort to get the right person at any company.

Are you angry because they didn't get you to the right person right away?
 
If you are asking for data on the new Scarlet/Epic series, Red honestly may not have it locked down yet. The physical designs are still in flux to some extent.
 
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