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Is it possible to build your own Mac Pro?

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tallsided

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I'm looking into purchasing a mac, but was wondering if anyone knows if it is at all possible to buy the components used in the mac's and build it yourself. I know Mac's have switched over to Intel processors, which leaves me curious whether it's possible to build your own 8 core mac. Anyone have any info? Thanks.
 
Nope. You have to wait for Steve Jobs to tell you what you can and cannot use.

All hail Jobs ruler of all Macs!

Or... and I wouldn't suggest this because it's technically illegal... you build a normal 8+ core PC and install OSX using this program that may or may not exist.
 
Yep, it's totally possible. I have a quote for one somewhere, a dual - quad core, all the same internals apart from a better graphics card and a bunch more RAM, for considerably less than the retail cost of the identically configured Mac Pro.

Be aware however, that all it will be is another PC, it may be the same on the inside, but you won't be able to run OSX, and really it's the Mac OS that is the heart and soul of a Mac.

It will still kick ass like a Mac Pro though as it will have the very same motherboard and the same Intel Quad Xeon's churning away at 3.0GHz, so even though you are running Windows, all your processor and RAM intensive applications will fly just like the Mac.

I'll dig up the parts list.
 
Try this on for size, you won't regret it!

2 x E5345 Intel Xeon 3.0GHz

Intel S5000XVNSATA Motherboard (Intel 5000X Chipset, VerNonia for dual multicore Xeon (667/ 1066 / 1333MHz), 8 x Dual Quad Channel DDR2-667 (Must be ECC FB-Dimm), 6 x SATA with RAID 0/1/10 (Raid 5 Optional), 1 x Parallel ATA100, on-board dual Intel 82563EB Gigabit LAN, 1 x 64bit 100MHz PCI-X, 1 x 64bit 133MHz PCI-X, 1 x PCI Express (16x), 2x PCI Express (8x))

4 x 2GB DDR2-667 ECC RAM
2 x 80GB SATA Disks (OS + Swap)
1 x 500GB SATA (Data, but configure your SATA RAID storage however you want)
1 x 8800GTX 768MB RAM Graphics Card (8096 x 8096 Frame Buffer!)
1 x Pioneer Blue Ray 25GB Writer (or whatever)
Windows XP x64

Enjoy!
 
Bruce Allen said:
wiki.osx86project.org

Kinda the opposite of a "turn-key" system though - every time you hit a problem in FCP, you won't know whether it's because of your weird OSX install or not.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Click to expand...

Yeah, I had that running on my Dell Inspiron laptop a while back. No networking, no wireless, and my 1920 x 1200 screen would only display 1600 x 1200.

It was novel for a while but needless to say very impractical, and Apple's own updates won't install. A reformat later and I had good ol WinXP Pro back, it may not be OSX but at least I have networking.

If you want a Mac, my advise would be to buy one. If you don't care about the OS then see the list I posted, it'll fly.

If you have the bucks, I'd add a QuadroFX 5500 SDI graphics card with 1GB RAM though.
 
Mac's really aren't all that expensive compared to a comparable PC. Like most PC vendors, you just don't want to buy all the additional RAM and drives from Apple as the mark-up is very steep. The Macbook Pro is another story... RAM can sometimes be a better deal elsewhere, but you may as well buy the best drive you can from Apple because you have to disassemble the whole thing to swap a hard drive and it ain't pretty.

I would recommend that if you want a Mac, buy a Mac Pro with the processors you want (8-core 3GHz is the best choice if your software can use it). Other than that, get the bluetooth option if you want and go for the X1900XT video card. Get as little RAM as possible, same with the hard drive. Then buy RAM and HDDs elsewhere. Just be sure your FB-DIMMs are certified to be Mac Pro compliant. Mac Pro FB-DIMMs have larger heat-spreaders on them as it gets pretty hot in there and many FB-DIMMs on the market, even from big names like Corsair, PNY, etc.. can overheat.

Back on the video card, your options right now are the X1900XT or the FX4500 video card. That's unfortunately it. Get the X1900XT as it's a lot cheaper and is better overall... Unless you need that genlock port or you use some very high-end, specialized software that can take advantage of a couple obscure features. Newer Quadro models or other nVidia / ATI cards are not available with compatible EFI firmware... You're pretty much stuck with what Apple is offering and that is one of the biggest complaints a lot of us have about Apple systems right now.

I'm really hoping Apple has updated Mac Pro systems with dual channel x16 video (SLI / CrossFire) and new video card offerings sometime later this year. The Siggraph show looks like a promising time for that.
 
And don't buy economy RAM! Bad RAM will result in a horrendously unstable machine.

It's also my personal belief that 80% of unstable homebuilt windows boxes are from economy power supplies.

I swapped those two components out of a machine and the difference was night and day in stability. (One at a time it was a significant improvement, then together... day/night).
 
im.thatoneguy said:
It's also my personal belief that 80% of unstable homebuilt windows boxes are from economy power supplies.
Click to expand...

I'll agree with that... I've had more PSU problems or stability problems caused by PSUs than any other component. Cheap ones are never good. In general, the ones that come bundled with a case == bad, unless you're paying a fair bit of money for a nice case with a nice, recognized brand power supply. Another common mistake people make when building a PC (and companies like Dell, HP and others are guilty too) is to use a PSU that's either too small or too large for the system it powers. I run into people wanting me to "take a look at their system that reboots intermittently when under load" and when I look, they have hardware requiring about 470W and they're running a 480W rated power supply.

And when I said buy RAM elsewhere, I will say it again that it can save you a bit of money, if you're planning to install a lot of it. But don't go cheap. It's better to spend $5K on a system that is stable than $3K on a system that crashes every now and then. If you're spending other peoples' money or can swing it in the budget, buy the RAM right from Apple. Then it's guaranteed to work and will be covered under your AppleCare plan.

I would also be tempted to step back to a 3GHz quad-core vs. the 8-core system if it helped me afford more RAM. Most software out there these days doesn't scale all that well beyond 2 or 4 CPUs. Many apps don't even handle 2 CPUs all that well as their internal thread scheduling just plain sucks. It depends what you'll be running on this Mac, but 8-core doesn't necessarily translate into twice as fast or powerful as a 4-core system. For the greater majority of Mac users, 8-core is simply overkill right now, even for us media creation types.

As for hard drives... The usual places like Fry's, Newegg, etc.. Are still best in most cases.
 
I think it's cheaper to buy a Mac from Apple than to build one yourself from scratch. Macs come with a standard 1 year warranty extendable to 3 years with AppleCare.

How much is your time worth trying to build your own Mac-compatible PC and all the errors and issues you'll encounter? Not to mention every Mac comes preloaded with OSX and iLife essentially for free when you compare prices of a similarly spec-ed out Mac vs Dell.

As mentioned in the other posts, buy a bare Mac and load it up with third party RAM from places like Newegg or Data Memory Systems (avoid Crucial with their dynamic pricing scam). Buy OEM HDs and install them yourself.
 
I have a friend Running Final cut on a PC works great

I have a friend Running Final cut on a PC works great

He also has Windows on another Drive running adobe both after effcts & Premier the computer cost him about 1400 to build He has a real macbook and a G4 as well but the PC running OSX and final cut now is his favorite Box
I have to admit I might want to build one my self I have supported mac for years I even own Stock but hey the stock has never paid a dividend all the years I have owned it. & to Me a New mac is a PC
 
Way I figure it, you're already taking the plunge for the $1300 for Final Cut Pro. Might as well get the computer to go with it, use it like it's designed for.

The real dealbreaker for osx86 (IMHO) is the way it has to mess with your boot-roms and SATA configs in order to fool your PC into thinking it's a Mac. Basically, you have to fry your Windows boot "On Spec" as it were, and then hope that OSX boots and runs properly. If not, you have to wipe everything and start over again. Yeesh.

Now perhaps a more realistic option, somewhere down the line, is a Parallels Desktop in reverse - an emulator that takes advantage of the native hardware similarities. But FCP is so specialized with the crazy kernel calls et al, I doubt it'll ever run properly under emulation.

To make a long story short - buy a Mac, get Applecare, make your movie. You're still better off than those poor Avid users.
 
And they're so pretty.

macpro.jpg
 
Ive had zero issues... you have to install drivers for the Hardware your using, I have Dual Monitor Support, Network, HD Audio and I'm Benchmarking faster than any PPC G5, I'm very close behind the Mac Pro for thousands less... All I have is a Intel Core 2 Duo overclocked to a 3.0ghz, the best part about it is I have a BIOS, for the price of a Imac I get a desktop that crushes anything in its price range.

A little research goes a long way, My PC has never even seen anything other than MAC OS X. I built it to run MAC over a year ago, now Final cut 6.

It's all an experiment, but its shocking how well it runs...
 
Mac's quality is not in the individual components but the motherboard and system architecture. Try find a similar platform in the PC department that would support 16gb ram for less than the cost of a mac pro.
 
here it is the in the PC(personal computer) Dept!!

so my 32 GB supported motherboard is $415 w/ 8 RAM slots, for $100 more I get 16 slots w/ 64 GB of RAM supported!! pfft!! http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131170

new egg isn't selling the Quad Xeon 3.0ghz right now, but the 2.6ghz Quad is only $815 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117111'

Thats only a 2.66ghz but I have not even overclocked yet! 3.5-4.0ghz with Watercooling, and at least 3.2ghz without.

8 - 4.0ghz cores??? Is that insane? or is it Logically What we want?

So I'm 8- 4.0ghz cores(w 16 Gb of unbuffered ECC RAM) at $3000, while apple's baseline 8 cores are at $3900(w/2 512mb sticks), and mine is full of RAM already!!! And 4 GB sticks aren't even out yet But I know right now that MY motherboard will support them,

Plus use any PCI express card on the market, including 7900GT, its the one I use

Seriously you all wait until Apple is forced to become the Software company they already are... the only thing they have left is the motherboard... and their fancy cases, no joke...

I want complete control over my hardware, as any Professional Editor normally would, Apples cost more for underclocked overpriced hardware, its just the facts...

I cant afford to pay more for less control,
 
Bravo, x86box. I will respectfully disagree with you regarding professional editors' desire for complete control over their hardware (many I know have not much of a clue in that regard but are brilliant editors nonetheless, even though they use an Avid running on a G4 with OS 9). But your experiments with Final Cut on your system are very interesting indeed! Have you tried plugging in a AJA or Blackmagic card yet? Good luck with your findings!

Cheers

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Guys, don't less this thread turn into a typical Mac vs. PC debate... I don't want to lock yet another thread this week and it's only monday.

x86box,

I understand where you're coming from, I spent several years always on the bleeding edge of custom PCs. Used to run a shop providing customized systems for gaming and workstation use... But you have only made two posts to these entire forums, both in this thread. So I'm really wondering what it is that you're doing here. Taking your above post into account, yu're not looking at the whole picture. There's a lot of factors at play here.

The ASUS board you linked. Nice board, but wouldn't be my first choice. The only thing it has going for it that the Mac Pro system board does not is the integrated hardware RAID controller. Firewire 800 must be provided by an additional card and the integrated audio is just ho-hum. It's only a 4-layer board and has numerous reviews of being extra-flimsy. Also lots of reports at Newegg and elsewhere that the mount holes and rear cover plate don't properly align with many case systems on the market. And no, I didn't just dig this up now, I considered this very same board a couple months ago when I built an 8-core Xeon system. The three reviews at NewEgg touched on all these issues. They also mentioned it runs hot, but I have yet to see a dual Xeon board that supports 2.66GHz and faster CPUs that doesn't run hot.

NewEgg (or anyone else for that matter) are currently not selling the 3GHz quad-core Xeon chip. Apple has the exclusive rights to that chip until Sept. 15th I believe. Any 3GHz you see on the market are frauds or pulled from a Mac Pro.

"Plus use any PCI express card on the market, including 7900GT and 8800" -- OK, that sounds great. But if this system is only to be used for OSX, then what's the point? OSX drivers currently don't take advantage of any new features within these cards and the memory access and management on the 8 series has changed. So while it's backward compatible, you won't be gaining any benefits from running an 8 series. The 7900GT[x] or Ultra will give a small boost simply because they're newer and faster cards, but like I said, you can't use any of the newer features not supported in the Apple driver sets.

If you "want complete control", you should probably just run Windows then. OSX isn't going to give you complete control over your hardware, nor is it going to use non-supported hardware to its fullest.

Yes, Apple does charge a premium for their systems.... More so as the lifespan of a system drags on because they don't adjust their prices regularly as PC vendors do. Apple is still cheaper than buying a similar configuration from Dell, HP or most other workstation vendors. And is a real bargain in that respect. So your argument over price for building the system yourself can also be used as justification for not buying HP, Dell, etc.. and not just Apple.

You also have to look at the bigger picture from a production point of view. Many people don't want to build a system. Let's face it, just about any monkey with a screwdriver can build a PC. But it still takes time, often you have to order components from two or three different places. Take the time to assemble it, test it, hope there's not a problem like a bad memory stick, etc.. Then load all your software. My time is more valuable than that. Although lately I've had quite a bit of extra time and did build a few PCs... But a lot of people don't have that luxury, they want that system ordered from a single vendor and fully operational within an hour of its arrival. And if there's any problem with a new Apple system, I don't have to spend more time hunting down the issue like I would with a PC I build. I can take it straight to the Apple store, tell them it's a dud and walk out with a new one and still be up and running within the hour. Like I said, big picture... There's a lot more to this industry than having the ultimate performance system and the smallest budget possible. For that very reason, that's why many people choose to pay for an HP workstation rather than build one themselves. Last I checked, HP dual 2.66GHz xeon systems had about a $1200 premium for the base config over an Apple system. But that was a couple months ago, chances are HP has cut prices while Apple won't until they update their hardware... Maybe tomorrow at their press event?

Anyway, off the soap box.
 
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