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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is FCP 8bit or 10bit?

Shawn Nelson

Shawn Nelson

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Alrighty, I'm a bit confused here. I could have sworn that I've repeatedly read here on RedUser that FCP is only 8bit and thus a rather inferior online/conform NLE.

Then I went to the Apple Tech Specs and it said that FCP can do 10bit uncompressed. Well hot damn, that's good enough for raw 2kDPX sequences and the whole nine yards. Hmmm, the confusion mounts.

Then I ran into this article here http://www.coremelt.com/support/workflow/red-camera-10-bit-color-online-workflow-with-fcp-6.0.2.html
that talks about staying in 10bit while using ProRes (which I thought was 8bit, but apparently its 8bit).

Can anyone more in the know on this help clear me up?
 
It's very simple....

FCP has three rendering pathways:

RGB 8bit: for RGB video, RGB that cannot report itself as 32bit float YCbCr, and for all RT Previews

YCbCr 8bit: For 8bit YCbCr video rendering

YCbCr 32bit float: for YCbCr 10bit, or when "High Quality YUV" rendering is enabled, or for any codec that can report the r4fl pixel type and supply 32float YCbCr data.

REDCODE supports r4fl, and takes the RGB 12bit raw data into 32float YCbCr for such a purpose. This is essentially a lossless conversion.

Hope that helps,

Graeme
 
8 bit RGB
10 bit Y`CbCr (commonly called YUV, what is wrong graeme teached me)
32 bit float

ok another question for the Ultracracks:
there is
10bit lin RGB DPX
10 bit log RGB DPX

what about
10 bit Rec709 RGB DPX ?

and about Y`CbCr:

10 bit lin Y`CbCr DPX
10 bit log Y`CbCr DPX
10 bit rec.709 Y`CbCr DPX ? (does this exist?)


ok i get what the difference between lin/log and rec709 is...
and when which of these are used (thank you community)!

But what about RGB/YUV/Y`CbCr/32 bit float ? When to use what and exactly why?
 
ProRes is 10 bit, you have to make sure you check "render in high precision YUV" in your sequence settings, and only use transitions that use the core technology.
 
Graeme, so when will FCP support Redcode natively? We saw it working in the booth at NAB 2007 so a full year later and we can't pull them in and edit like Evin was so effortlessly doing, seems weird.

So 2k 10bit DPX sequences are a no-go?
 
Shawn Nelson said:
Graeme, so when will FCP support Redcode natively? We saw it working in the booth at NAB 2007 so a full year later and we can't pull them in and edit like Evin was so effortlessly doing, seems weird.

So 2k 10bit DPX sequences are a no-go?
Click to expand...


RGB i/o is 8bit on FCP.
10 bit RGB sadly doesnt exists in FCP so far.
 
But let's say you cut your proxies, reconnect in RedCine with Crimson, export 10 bit log DPX, collect VFX sequences from compositor, CC in color and then you have to add titles and play this back from something. FCP would be the obvious choice, but...


Gunleik
 
gunleik said:
But let's say you cut your proxies, reconnect in RedCine with Crimson, export 10 bit log DPX, collect VFX sequences from compositor, CC in color and then you have to add titles and play this back from something. FCP would be the obvious choice, but...


Gunleik
Click to expand...

But where would you export your 10bit DPX sequences to? It sounds like FCP can't handle them. This link...getting it from a RedCine timeline into AfterEffects is my top query.
 
This is very interesting thread!

I see a lot of choices in different export option to 10 bit log or lin.

My impression is that 10 bit DPX log is as good as 12 bit linear, is that correct?
Also why anybody will use 10 bit linear on DPX?

Can anybody explain this to me, please?
 
Can't color handle the 10bit DPX files? This way you cut in FCP, conform with Crimson over to Redcine and finally into Color??

However, why not just cut in FCP have Crimson create the clip pull list, 1st CC and resize only the clips used for your final timeline in Redcine, render to ProRes HQ. Then go back into FCP and relink your timeline to the conformed ProRes files. Finally send to Color or Motion for final CC, titles, etc. Export DPX out of Color. :love: Does this work - I have no idea.:waaa:
 
I believe GlueTools DPX tool allows you to work in 10bit 444 RGB in FCP. However, when your editing FCP will transcode the RGB to YUV on the fly. This way you can still be 10 bit 444 RGB in and out of FCP. This is sort of how I understood it. However, at 1920X1080 RGB 444 DPX via GlueTools in FCP reads at about 190mb's so you will need a RAID for playback.
 
Can anyone fill me in on why FCP doesn't support R3Ds natively? I saw Evin doing this very thing in the booth at NAB. Why a year later do we not have it?
 
Shawn Nelson said:
Can anyone fill me in on why FCP doesn't support R3Ds natively? I saw Evin doing this very thing in the booth at NAB. Why a year later do we not have it?
Click to expand...

Great question - FCP integration was promoted to much more Revolutionary than it currently is - now a year later.:construction:
 
can anyone suggest a resource to learn more about the kinds of things discussed in this thread? I have a basic understanding but would love to learn more.

Thanks
 
So far:
proxy to prores > cut prores in FCP > FCP to Crimson > Crimson to RedCine > One light in RedCine > export to 10bit 2k DPX > Crimson roundtrip back to FCP > CC DPX in Color > …

1) Is it possible to round trip those DPX to FCP?
2) Once in Color, what are we to do?

Emmanuel
 
Emmanuel Cambier said:
So far:
proxy to prores > cut prores in FCP > FCP to Crimson > Crimson to RedCine > One light in RedCine > export to 10bit 2k DPX > Crimson roundtrip back to FCP > CC DPX in Color > …

1) Is it possible to round trip those DPX to FCP?
2) Once in Color, what are we to do?

Emmanuel
Click to expand...

with gluetools it is possible to import dpx files into fcp
 
There is more color info in a DPX frame, because it is essentially a 10bit 444 image, where as the 2k uncompressed file is 422.


Laco Zamba said:
Quicktime 10bit 422 2k uncompressed vs. 10bit 2k DPX

Why prefer DPX? Uncompressed has less disk space.
Click to expand...
 
Shawn Nelson said:
Can anyone fill me in on why FCP doesn't support R3Ds natively? I saw Evin doing this very thing in the booth at NAB. Why a year later do we not have it?
Click to expand...

Because Apple's image processing engine is Quicktime. Final Cut, Motion, and just about everything else Apple has (with the exception of Shake) are basically application wrappers for Quicktime, they use Quicktime and only Quicktime. IMHO, the only way Final Cit will ever access Red's files "natively" is if Red changes their R3d file format to Quicktime. Short of that, the wrappers are Apple's current and probably future solution. I expect that the only "evolution" of this will be an integration into some extended version of the same Log and Transfer scheme used for DVCProHD ingest.
 
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