Is Avid the Best?

[AnthonyFlores]

Thanks Peter -- you're right -- I think features are at least a few years away (if ever), but just don't want to make things any harder than they need to be.

Also, my time will be more scarce going forward, so I'd rather invest it in learning one system really well with the time I have.

Question: For those who use Avid, I though I heard Ted say before that Avid can edit Red files natively, but then it seems most people here transcode. Which is it?

And for those who transcode, is it easy to return back to the 4k file once you're done with with the editing process?

Anthony

 

[Frank Glencairn]

Yet the fact that an amazing $200 million movie like Inception was edited partly on a laptop tells you that it's certainly functional, and perhaps sometimes necessary or more effective -- especially in situations where a movie is shot in so many different locations and it's hard to have the right "complete" setup.

Nahh, they shot on everything from 35mm scope, 35mm VistaVision. and 65mm (five-perf) stock. So Lee and Smith where only editing proxys in DNx 36 - big deal.

F&V: Some editors have told me that’s been the biggest technological advancement of the last few years — because full-fledged editing can be done on a laptop it’s very freeing.

JL: Yeah, but it’s also a bad thing. When you’re traveling, you may fly to London or wherever and it’s, “Can you do that scene while you’re on the way?” And it’s like, “No, I was thinking of eating peanuts and watching a movie.”

LS: The other big problem for us on this film, and any of the Chris Nolan films, is that security is so tight. What we can do on a laptop is very limited — just a half-dozen shots.

A lot of the work was actually done on Steenbecks.

JL: Another little problem we find working at a studio is that everyone’s used to the DI process. For all the marketing on a movie, they just look at the schedule and say, “We’re going to make some trailers,” and they expect to grab it from your DI. We don’t have a DI. We always have to remind them, “We’re a traditional film show. There’s going to be a period where you don’t have access to anything.”

just saying, ;-) Frank

 

[Oliver Peters]

Question: For those who use Avid, I though I heard Ted say before that Avid can edit Red files natively, but then it seems most people here transcode. Which is it?
And for those who transcode, is it easy to return back to the 4k file once you're done with with the editing process?

Media Composer 5 can natively access the R3D files and also gives you direct access to the color metadata via RED's SDK. It is better to transcode because your editing performance is better. The files are always scaled to 1920x1080 HD.

You can do an offline/online process. Transcode all at a draft resolution, then later bring in just the timeline clips at full res/full debayer (HD size). If you want/need to go 2K or 4K, then you can use an EDL to go to another app for conform/grade linked back to the original R3D files.

As far as Script Sync... Yes, if you didn't previously own MC4, then Script Sync is $1K extra. But you still have script-based editing without it. You just don't have the automatic audio analysis and would have to line up your clips to the script manually.

- Oliver

 

[Peter Moretti]

Thanks Peter -- you're right -- I think features are at least a few years away (if ever), but just don't want to make things any harder than they need to be.

Also, my time will be more scarce going forward, so I'd rather invest it in learning one system really well with the time I have.

...

Anthony, I really think using the free trials is the way to go. One software may just click for you. I really wanted to like Sony Vegas, and there are many AMAZING things about it, but I just found Avid more intuitive. With other people, it's vice versa.

Like Oliver stated, Avid MC can finish in HD (1920 by 1080) resolution maximum. If you want to go to 2K or 4K you have to use another program somewhere along the line. Also, Premiere has better native R3D performance than any NLE out right now. I'm sure Avid is working on a 64-bit version, that I bet will scream, but until then Adobe wins the speed test.

If you are one man shop finishing yourself, then Avid is at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to Red footage b/c of the resolution restriction. Red says "4K matters." But MC limits you to 1.9K. That said there are many features of MC that make it a great program. Trim Mode, great Source and Record monitors, ability to copy a sequence into the Source monitor, excellent keyboard based editing, approachable Avid team members, very good media management, rock solid rendering.

But if you are going to want to finish in 4K, you simply can't do this in MC. You can with the other big three NLE's.

 

[AnthonyFlores]

Thanks Peter, I will give Avid a try.

Adobe seems great, but when I heard of their CEO meeting with Balmer and talks of a possible merger with Microsoft -- I got really turned off. I know that's my religious "Cult of Apple" side talking ... BUT ... :sad:

Anyway, I will give Avid a go -- funny I was thinking the same thing as you. I've dabbled in Final Cut and Premier, now it's worth giving it a shot. Editing is a very personal experience, and the suite should feel natural and intuitive to you.

Besides, right now HD is enough since most of my content will be for the web. I'm sure they'll catch up to the 4k thing ... I mean, with all the Reds and soon Epics and Scarlets coming out. Ted mentioned their close relationship on a trade show video, so I can only assume things are in the works.

And unlike Adobe or Apple, MC seems to be their true bread and butter -- so they need to stay on the cutting edge.

Thanks for the time you took to respond, you've really helped me.

Anthony

 

[Peter Moretti]

A VERY VERY NICE feature that Avid comes with is Boris Continuum Complete. It's a complete set of very powerful, amazing looking effects. I believe it costs around $1K as a standalone app from BorisFX. But it comes free w/ Media Composer. MC also comes w/ Boris Red, which is a very nice compositing app.

And Avid is not a black box in that members of the Avid team are pretty frequent posters on the web. The Avid user forum on Avid.com is very helpful, even if some of the longtime members can be a bit curmudgeonly.

I had a timecode problem with a tape I was trying to capture at 2am. I posted and w/in half an hour I had three viable solutions, one of which absolutely saved my butt.

Not to say that the other makers aren't committed to their products, I'm sure they are. But there is no mistaking that Avid is in this for real, which really benefits us users.


P.S. If you see complaints about MC5 stability issues on the Avid user forum, please keep a few things in mind.

1. Avid users are used to the app working for months on end w/o a single crash, so anything less feels appocalyptic to some of them.

2. MC5 required a complete uninstall and reinstall, which a lot people didn't do.

3. A lot of users don't check to be sure they are running the proper video drivers and version of Quicktime.

4. MC5 is a major rewrite, which means it does have issues, but so do the latest versions of any software.

5. Avid has already issued mutliple fixes and added additional features to the user interface... so it's very good now and is only getting better.

 

[Peter Moretti]

Oh one other thing Anthony, Avid is fully commited to the Apple platform. They have a policy of releasing features in MC only if they can be implemented in both the PC and Mac versions. Avid has even removed features from the PC side that slipped through testing and made into a production release b/c the same features were not in the Mac release.

So if you are a Mac person, please feel assured that Avid supports your platform. Avid was first written for the Mac and every MC demo by Avid I've ever has been done on a super high powered Mac.

 

[Igor Ridanovic]

Anthony,

In Los Angeles most of the TV episodics are cut on Media Composer. Pretty much any deadline driven project where you have multiple editors and AEs collaborating and working at the same time is cut with Media Composer.

A lot of projects where you have a single editor working are cut with FCPRO.

In the low budget to medium budget feature films it's about even between MC and FCPRO. Many productions will accomodate the editor's preference but even so, cases where you need collaborative environment typically go Avid's way.

Premiere Pro has had some groundbreaking technology in the recent years, but it keeps failing to capture a decent market share here. Part of that has to do with the fact that FCPRO and MC are more than good enough for offline editing so no one bothers learning new tools.

 

[Tim Hole]

I've spent most of my post life on Avid in the office but I'm all about the CS5 at home. I prefer to come here and work rather than there a lot of the time. For so long Avid felt like someone who kept building stories onto a house built on medieval foundations. But it has got better...

 

[AnthonyFlores]

What makes Avid so much better for collaborative work?

 

[hdnow]

Media management and fully integrated shared storage solutions.

cheers,
Bogdan Grigoresco
www.finale.tv

 

[Mike Prevette]

Ya the way Avid "packages" projects makes it very easy to hand off projects and share them. At the same time it feels strict and constrictive to me. It takes a lot of leg work in FCP to set them up in a way that is comparable.

 

[Nick Shaw]

Avid's methodology of having one file per bin, rather than one file per project makes sharing of assets much easier.

You can so a similar thing with FCP, but you need to use XML exporting to share assets, which is effective doing a "save a copy" for other editors to import. If you change a bin you need to re-export and the other editor needs to re-import. In Avid they would simply "refresh" the bin and see the updates.