Is Apple going to let Adobe get away with this

[Finner]

I agree with what you are getting at here Daniel. The thing is should we really be supporting a company that supplies what it's customers need at the last moment because they don't want to lose market share? Apple has had exclusive red rights for a long time and did squat with the big opportunity they had. I think it would be good for apple to lose a large % of the market to some other companies. It would be much more beneficial for our $ to go to a company that are interested in improving their post systems because the customer base needs it rather then throwing customers a bone at the last minute due to fears of loosing seats.

 

[Daniel Reichenbach]

I'm a big fan of APPLE, but not to know, what the next month will bring and in which software product I should invest, is not very use- and helpfull for a customer. Perhaps they should learn from Jim? On the other hand: I remember, some years ago, Steve Jobs has always promised and announced a lot of things, which never happened or happened later and the APPLE community disliked that. That could be the reason for the politics of "no comments" until things are done.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Hopefully there is some one at Scratch to answer the phone when you need to unlock your $20,000.00 software with no curves.

Everyone is at IBC and no one returned calls.

Nothing like to doing a Scratch demo when your Scratch system displayed an Invalid License that you can't fix, and no body to answer the phone.

LOL

Tek

I just checked our licensing server, and all licenses that have been requested over the past several days have been delivered. None of them was more than a few hours wait.

Specifically, the Alacrity license (I assume you are talking about Blair's system) took 4 hours to turn around. It was requested when it was 1AM Amsterdam time, and the license was generated at 5AM.

Checking further - the last time a license was requested from Alacrity was at 9PM on July 3. It was fulfilled and returned at 9:37PM. And that was on July 4th weekend.

We don't do licenses over the phone, which all of our customers know. This is not a "LOL" issue. We take our customer licensing very seriously, and stay on top of it.

I will communicate your comments to Blair to make sure there is no future misunderstanding.

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

 

[Jimmy Gitonga]

Clever Apple

Clever Apple

Let's start from the obvious.

Avid in the late 90's walked away from Apple as a platform and pushed Apple into buying FCP from Macromedia. From 0% now they are at 42% in the US and here in Kenya any post guys worth their salt moved to FCP. Avid struggles maintaining their clients here. Avid has very little traction in the low end of the post market. And since a lot of future RED users will come from a video background expect FCS to grow.

The Professional market for Apple will never die and Apple knows this. They also know mixed with "iHalo" effect we are locked into waiting and whining. But we are waiting to get our socks blown off. Not only will Apple do .R3D native but they will make it possible to work with it on any FCS application.

Once we look at Final cut Server, imagine what the work flow will be like. From ingest to finish.:meh:

Note they have the code base for Shake and Color. Expect a 64bit rewrite of all their apps so that they are ready for the Snow Leopard. Expect iMovie to support .R3D.

Adobe are excellent. But they were part of the "vaporware" sayers of RED in the past. They need to catch up with Apple. For Premier to go 32bit float and offer color finishing will require a lot of work. I expect After Effects to be sorted out first because of its importance to the current market. If they don't, then between Motion and Shake(Phenomenon?) Apple will make serious inroads into the post/VFX market. Premier will rule when the Scarlet comes out.

I am waiting. There is no rush really, we just want our toys now :nerd:.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

If you are on a MAC - you will want the entire FINAL CUT STUDIO (and yeah - they are doing "new stuff") and the entire CS4 SUITE. I do understand that people have different budgets and there are many DEY guys here (do everything yourself) - but Final Cut Studio and Adobe Suites are NOT significant investments considering what you get out of them.

There's a lot of PC vs Mac investment debate here - and if you can only own ONE COMPUTER - then I guess it's more of a debate. And in that debate I'd go Mac because there are MORE Red related solutions. PC is cheaper - Mac has MORE TOOLS FOR RED. Do you want a few more dollars in your pocket, or more tools in your your toolbox to make more money for your pocket??

But if you want ALL the BEST tools for working for the RED now (and coming soon) - you will want - AT LEAST ONE PC, AND ONE INTEL MAC - and the good news is that Adobe can move seamlessly across platform - and there is more than one solution in the works that will take your FCP XML and just CREATE A PREMIERE PROJECT with one click of a mouse.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Let's start from the obvious.

Avid in the late 90's walked away from Apple as a platform and pushed Apple into buying FCP from Macromedia. From 0% now they are at 42% in the US and here in Kenya any post guys worth their salt moved to FCP. Avid struggles maintaining their clients here. Avid has very little traction in the low end of the post market. And since a lot of future RED users will come from a video background expect FCS to grow.

The Professional market for Apple will never die and Apple knows this. They also know mixed with "iHalo" effect we are locked into waiting and whining. But we are waiting to get our socks blown off. Not only will Apple do .R3D native but they will make it possible to work with it on any FCS application.

Once we look at Final cut Server, imagine what the work flow will be like. From ingest to finish.:meh:

Note they have the code base for Shake and Color. Expect a 64bit rewrite of all their apps so that they are ready for the Snow Leopard. Expect iMovie to support .R3D.

Adobe are excellent. But they were part of the "vaporware" sayers of RED in the past. They need to catch up with Apple. For Premier to go 32bit float and offer color finishing will require a lot of work. I expect After Effects to be sorted out first because of its importance to the current market. If they don't, then between Motion and Shake(Phenomenon?) Apple will make serious inroads into the post/VFX market. Premier will rule when the Scarlet comes out.

I am waiting. There is no rush really, we just want our toys now :nerd:.

There are many truths in this post. Nicely stated Ashoka.

 

[Mike Harrington]

Adobe are excellent. But they were part of the "vaporware" sayers of RED in the past. They need to catch up with Apple. For Premier to go 32bit float and offer color finishing will require a lot of work. I expect After Effects to be sorted out first because of its importance to the current market. If they don't, then between Motion and Shake(Phenomenon?) Apple will make serious inroads into the post/VFX market. Premier will rule when the Scarlet comes out.

you do realize that Premiere is 32 bit float right now....and 4k
and 32 bit RGB, the color space of the Red...and has been for years
what is Final Cut 10 bit RGB? with 32 bit YUV
After affects....32 bit floating point color 4k and up...has been for years

What do we really expect from an Apple announcement....going by there past history they seem to announce well before they can actually deliver...so what is the timeline from when they announce? 2 years...Are they going to promise a rewrite of FCS to handle 4k or 4.5 k and some hardware acceleration?
Or are they going to deliver something?
If they announce something that they can't deliver on for a year will that satisfy the FC users.
Are apple reps trolling the forums,working out workflow issues...Adobe's are, and Avids are
I would bet support in Color is coming....but that would be about it.


And it's reasonable to expect that Apple will rewrite for 64 bit apps....but when. CS4 will not be 64 bit on apple...Windows has tons of 64 bit apps...fusion lightwave maya...none of which are 64 bit on mac.

Seems like a combination of remembering the glory days, and looking ahead....But ignoring the present.

Saying adobe has to catch up? Adobe is ready now....

 

[Cal Brunker]

As a die hard Apple fan, I have to say, that they've really crapped the bed in the past year. The Mac Pro's are long over due, Shake was discontinued, and Nuke has TOTALLY blown it out of the water (perhaps for the fact that they have kept developing when Shake stopped).

Color is a nightmare, it would be incredible if it didn't fall apart under a real production, and if it could output more than SD through an AJA box. It's been out for a year, and tons of people are still dealing with fully corrupted project files. I just finished a short film that had to be rebuilt in it's entirety twice, due to an error that caused Color to crash when I saved. (this is all over the forums)

All of the mac rumor websites, which were once filled with Pro Apps/high end hardware chat, have become a place for iPhone news. (I dig my iphone, but come on!)

To discontinue Shake, and not outline a roadmap for where you're hoping to go, leaves us with no choice but to jump ship. Motion is not a shake replacement. It's a motion graphics software (as it was intended to be), and is absolutely unusable for pro comping.

Wow, I needed to have a little vent. Thanks for listening. One big Apple announcement will put me back to good with them.

 

[Michele Gavazzeni]

All of the mac rumor websites, which were once filled with Pro Apps/high end hardware chat, have become a place for iPhone news.

Since Apple became appealing for consumer market the Pro users has lost power to push the development of products dedicated to their needs.

 

[Michele Gavazzeni]

If you are on a MAC - you will want the entire FINAL CUT STUDIO (and yeah - they are doing "new stuff") and the entire CS4 SUITE.

Red teasing style... still waiting for the video card with HDMI 10bit Out you were talking about that would really useful in most of our machine.

 

[Jimmy Gitonga]

My biggest concern with the Adobe workflow is color finishing. I know there are some plug-in (Color Finesse?) but native support in Apple Color may solve this. It's still a waiting game I guess.

I am sorry, mdharrington, I was not clear. Yes, Premier is 32 bit per Channel internal color processing, also called Resolution independent and so is After Effects (AE7, if I remember correctly). The problem is finishing in 4K. Interestingly enough FCS doesn't do this nor does it get to 4096 (digital 4K) and it rides on the codecs and resolutions set for a project. Hence the native .R3D codec.

As for announcing before delivery, it seems to be an industry trend. RED was announced a whole year before the #6-25 were delivered. We have accepted it. In fact our current beef with Apple is that they HAVE NOT announced anything unlike Adobe on native .R3D support.

 

[helgetjelta]

In fact our current beef with Apple is that they HAVE NOT announced anything unlike Adobe on native .R3D support.

NOR will they do. They have never done much of releasing info way before delivering... so as usual, we just have to wait, and earn money in our daily work. Keep on working!

sincerly Helge

 

[chocblu]

Ok...

So I think everybody needs to remember a few things.

FCP (and quite possibly all the other proapps) are 32bit Carbon as far as im aware.... And if everybody remembers Apple pulled the carpet out from underneath Adobe about 6 minths ago by anouncing that Cocoa will be the only API going to 64 bits. So im guessing that Apple will need to REWRITE their entire application suite for a new API. Not something you can do in the Blink of an eye.

Coupled with the complete rewrite of Quicktime, and you have a major platform change on the cards, the like of which Adobe doesnt need to do right now. So im sorry but i think Apple has a few more pressing programming concerns than a niche codec, that there are only 3000 cameras out in the wild with.

Just my 2c

 

[Jason Diamond]

AVID is currently pushing more of its processing to HOST computer with every update and release. they also understand the value of FCS style integration and media management (even tho AVID media management is superior there are some benefits to FCS approach). Also don't forget AVID is cross platform so if they can pull it together they will have a def advantage over apple and FCS.
Also, AVID never abandoned the Mac platform. True the PC versions were often ahead of the Macs but they caught up and now and in the near future those points will be Moot.

Also I am working on something special with a well known plug-in company that will work cross platform FCS/AVID/ADOBE,Etc... that will do some pretty amazing things so stay tuned....!!!

 

[Kenn Michael]

Also, AVID never abandoned the Mac platform. True the PC versions were often ahead of the Macs but they caught up and now and in the near future those points will be Moot.

Actually, there was one moment in history where Avid released a press release stating that they were dropping Mac support. I remember this because I owned an Avid at the time.

All hell broke loose in the industry and within a very short time, Avid reversed their position. This was indeed around the time that Final Cut Pro 1.0 was released.

 

[Finner]

Really? When? That seems like good news - except for those product managers.

Didn't you know apple post solutions are just around the corner. In fact apple has been touting just around the corner solutions now since NAB 2007.

 

[Filip Vandoorne]

Tech preview of new Finalcutpro at IBC FCP supermeet

Tech preview of new Finalcutpro at IBC FCP supermeet

Apple showed a new log&transfer tool to transfer all RED metadata inside finalcutpro. They showed send to Color, so that you could work inside Color natively on the RED RAW files ! No comment when this version would be released, but they are definitely working on it! The other very important announcement at the supermeet, was the release of Quvis Wraptor, a DCP authoring compressor plugin : http://www.quvis.com/?Action=News&SubAction=View&FrameText=Yes&NewsID=122 ... and it costs only 699$ !!!! available today! It makes showing you RED projects at the theaters a lot less expensive.
At IBC, Iridas was also showing Speedgrade XR with native build 16 support.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Setting the record straight

Setting the record straight

To Lucas, Tony and all the fine support folks at Assimilate:

Tekcin spoke out of turn.

It was my responsibility to get the license renewed well in advance of any work I needed to do with my system. Logistically, it was problematic in this particular case, but that is because I stored the Scratch Cine seat for close to a month while upgrading the van (trying to keep dust out of the hardware). That was my choice.

Let me be clear - Assimilate has been a stellar partner to Alacrity Media in implementing my mobile DI platform. Their customer service is exceptional. They have stepped up numerous times to support me. Any negative characterization of how they do business did not come from me.

Blair S. Paulsen, President - Alacrity Media

 

[Christopher Grant Harvey]

The problem is finishing in 4K.

Whats the problem with Adobe's 4K finish?

 

[Jimmy Gitonga]

Nothing actually. Its just not on .R3D. That's the issue right now.

I can tell you, for the movie that was shot on the RED here recently, if After Effects had .R3D native support ... I would be :usd:.