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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is 2/3" going to be enough?

Tom

how does this add to the thread. Are you suggesting that all of these productions would go Scarlett if they have already NOT shooting on red. All if the reasons they would not choose red have not changed.

Your post has zero validity in the sense that all it is is acompiled lust of 2/3 inch productions that have not gone film or Red.

Are you suggesting that these would all convert to Scarlet once it is available?

Not sure where you are going with this list. It's nice and all but I don't get the point.

David
 
David -

I think the point was just to establish the viability of 2/3" vs S35 as a format, independent of RED or the Scarlet.
 
Kevin Marshall said:
David -

I think the point was just to establish the viability of 2/3" vs S35 as a format, independent of RED or the Scarlet.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

The post was in response to the OP. Regardless of the big sensor craze, the audience (ie the people these pieces of moving image are being created for) have long accepted the characteristics of this format. It is enough and will be for a while.

Not to mention for stereo and for FX work (where deeper focus is desirable).
 
Have to go with Tim here...

One of the better arguments for Scarlet 2/3" is 2/3"/16mm productions... (without a pro35 adapter...) which are 2/3"/16mm out of choice and not need.
 
This is a good thread... Wonder how Tim found out the details of these movies (as far as what was used to shoot them)?
 
After having shot quite some things with the RED I can't wait for my fixed Scarlet for my own things.

An all-in-one, small camera with a good range fast zoom, that can get you a pretty usable DOF when wide open and gives you a perfectly nice 2K image at the end of the road.

I can't wait, really.
 
I have a Viper. If 2/3" is not enough, then I should probably just throw it in the trash and get a DSLR or wait for Scarlet.

In all seriousness, I plan for this camera to be relevant for at least another 18 months, maybe longer. I expect 2/3" format to be relevant for many many years.
 
I'll also add that I have every intention on buying a Scarlet as soon as RED will sell me one. However, I don't plan on that happening at all this year or in the early months of 2011.
 
I can tell you why the 2/3 Scarlet is perfect for some people: I'm a professional photographer and already own a boatload of high-quality Nikon lenses, and I do video, and I'm waiting on the Scarlet so that I can use the range of lenses I already own to do movies (mostly action stuff), where I can control the depth of field and also, when needed, have autofocus abilities.

And the 120 fps burst mode would be awesome for my job.

The majority of my movies play online at a decreased size (about 631x355 currently).

I really wish this thing would come out, though, because I'm getting antsy. I was hoping to have one by September/October for off-season shooting in my field (a field Jannard is very familiar with), and if it comes out too late, I won't have much chance to use it anyway, so I may not end up buying it at all.
 
Steve_Cox said:
I can tell you why the 2/3 Scarlet is perfect for some people: I'm a professional photographer and already own a boatload of high-quality Nikon lenses, and I do video, and I'm waiting on the Scarlet so that I can use the range of lenses I already own to do movies (mostly action stuff), where I can control the depth of field and also, when needed, have autofocus abilities.
Click to expand...

I'd actually say that's a better argument for the S35, since even a very wide rectilinear prime for a full frame, 1.3, or 1.5 crop camera will be somewhat narrow on the 2/3" platform. Don't get me wrong - still glass will be usable, it just won't give you fields of view similar to 25mm or below on the 2/3" platform. It is for this reason that the mini-primes come is such small focal lengths (as well as 16mm glass).

Rather, I'd say that the 2/3" cinema will be more than enough for:
1) The budget conscious filmmaker who needs to push beyond what an HVX or and EX series camera can give. I look at the 2/3" camera as a digital 16mm camera, such as I see the S35 camera as a digital 35mm camera. And look how much highly professional work 16mm still gets - television shows, advertising, and cinema. 2/3" is a very viable format. Otherwise RED wouldn't bother with it.

2) Event videographers who need the deeper DOF and perception of longer focal lengths. Some events folks have really delved into the DSLR craze and focused on "cinematic weddings/birthdays/funerals/parties", but I still see a lot of people who pick up the DSLRs and find the depth of field too shallow. Scarlet gives them incredible resolution and versatility in a small package.

Timeliness is important, as I'm sure everyone who is working long hours at RED can attest to that. Ultimately, I'll end up buying the best tool for the job. I just have a feeling that such a tool will come from RED, given their outlook on production, incredible innovations in imaging, and their desire to change the way the market works.
 
Michael Olsen said:
I'd actually say that's a better argument for the S35, since even a very wide rectilinear prime for a full frame, 1.3, or 1.5 crop camera will be somewhat narrow on the 2/3" platform. Don't get me wrong - still glass will be usable, it just won't give you fields of view similar to 25mm or below on the 2/3" platform. It is for this reason that the mini-primes come is such small focal lengths (as well as 16mm glass).

Rather, I'd say that the 2/3" cinema will be more than enough for:
1) The budget conscious filmmaker who needs to push beyond what an HVX or and EX series camera can give. I look at the 2/3" camera as a digital 16mm camera, such as I see the S35 camera as a digital 35mm camera. And look how much highly professional work 16mm still gets - television shows, advertising, and cinema. 2/3" is a very viable format. Otherwise RED wouldn't bother with it.

2) Event videographers who need the deeper DOF and perception of longer focal lengths. Some events folks have really delved into the DSLR craze and focused on "cinematic weddings/birthdays/funerals/parties", but I still see a lot of people who pick up the DSLRs and find the depth of field too shallow. Scarlet gives them incredible resolution and versatility in a small package.

Timeliness is important, as I'm sure everyone who is working long hours at RED can attest to that. Ultimately, I'll end up buying the best tool for the job. I just have a feeling that such a tool will come from RED, given their outlook on production, incredible innovations in imaging, and their desire to change the way the market works.
Click to expand...
I've got lenses down to 14mm, so that's not really an issue for me. But the extra $4250 is an issue for me.

Offer them at the same price, and I'd agree. But alas, they're not.
 
Question is, what f stop?
f1.4-2 is the right zone for decent bokeh (imo) on 2/3, but fully open will loose more resolution on an already challenging dense sensor.
 
OK, I've heard enough about this subject that I decided to break it down quantitatively. Let me know if my math is wrong, I am by no means a lens expert, I just spent a few minutes Googling.

The Scarlet will have a sensor diagonal of about 11mm, for a circle of confusion of 0.0076mm, compared to 0.029mm for an FF35. This means the the Scarlet's DOF will be about 3.8x wider than an FF35 camera, or the Scarlet's DOF will be equivalent to a 3.8x higher f-number on an FF35. Thus, the Scarlet's DOF is equivalent to the DOF 3-4 stops higher on an FF35 sensor.

So the Scarlet fixed, wide open at T2.8, is equivalent to the 5Dm2 around f/10, or a 1/3" camera around f/1.4.
 
Sam Eilertsen said:
So the Scarlet fixed, wide open at T2.8, is equivalent to the 5Dm2 around f/10, or a 1/3" camera around f/1.4.
Click to expand...

I recall the difference to S35 (Red one etc.) is 2 1/2 stops. That would mean Scarlet's T2.8 should be close to S35 f5.6-f8 split.
 
Eki Halkka said:
I recall the difference to S35 (Red one etc.) is 2 1/2 stops. That would mean Scarlet's T2.8 should be close to S35 f5.6-f8 split.
Click to expand...
Right, because S35 is about 1.33 stops below FF35.

If someone wants to post an image shot with the R1 at that aperture, maybe at a few different focal lengths, we could get a better idea of what the DOF will actually look like.

For the interchangeable with the T1.5 lenses, you can get the equivalent of around f/3.3 on the R1 or f/4.8 on FF35, which is pretty good I think.
 
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