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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is 1k more really worth $24,000 more

The DR #'s should be on the rise with Epic as well I'd imagine.

That would be the single most important feature for me in regards to Epic.

Please give us in up wards of 13-14 stops, I'd repay the favor with a testicle or two.
 
So in theory would Epic need to be 14 bit to get 14 stops? I don't mean to turn this in the direction of DR discussion, its just that what I've come to understand is that DR is limited to the bits...right?

Also, when do "bits" come into play anyways?
 
K.Berlin said:
just looking to the specs:
is 1k really worth 20k...

when i look to scarlet, its 3k for 3000....red is 1k more and costs 14500 more.
but the advantage of the one over scarlet is not the 1k, its the PL Mount...so i see immediatly the higher value...

on epic i dont get yet whats the difference...will there be a rawport option?
dont know...it cant be the 1k...but we shouldnt forget that this 1k makes a big difference to the red one if you really want to finish in 4k, involved with heavy vfx...

because reds 4k....is almost 3,2 k when transcoded to a RGB Image...so much less then 4k....

With Epic you really get 4k RGB....
The Chairman of a camera company (was it Arri?dont want to blame him) said something like;

You cant get 4k out of a 4k cam.....which is true...so if you really need the 4k
for heavy Post...then the 20k are worth the difference!?

my conclusion:
red one-----2k finish
epic--------4k finish

makes for me 4x higher quality finish for 2x the price.................EPIC is a Steal!
Click to expand...

Guten Tag.

AGree that 4K to 2K = The best 2K images for the Barco 2K screen worldwide.

Will see that 5K to 3K = the best 3K images for the XX brand to come up a 3K projector to support REDCODE 100MB/s soon.

Stewart Chong
HKG
 
K.Berlin said:
on epic i dont get yet whats the difference...will there be a rawport option?
dont know...it cant be the 1k...but we shouldnt forget that this 1k makes a big difference to the red one if you really want to finish in 4k, involved with heavy vfx...
Click to expand...

actually i am yet to see vfx done at 4k..(not that it hasnt been done)the difference in render costs for 4k would just be ridiculous... getting stuff to render at 2k is bad enough. ...i only seen 4k used on scans that needed very hard core camera projections
 
Uhh.. 1K is almost 50% more resolution than 4k.. I know it doesn't sound right, but draw up a 4k image in photoshop, and then overlay it on a 5k area..
 
unbelivable just morethan 1 k with x sensor and price goin to $40,000 oh ma god better and always perfect is redone only i will go for it ....
 
It's not about that 1K resolution.
The stuff that I see in Epic:

Better DR
Better new sensor = less noise
Higher framerates at full 5K or 4K. So no 2K shooting any more = nicer DOF
Lighter and smaller camera.
Less skew.

This is like RED one on stereoids.
You just gotta love it.
 
The extra pixels would not be why I upgraded, but there are some nice promises in the overall specs. I particularily like the fullframe high fps and lower compression rates. Those two alone, should be worth the upgrade for some.

Add faster sensor reading, possibly higher DR and there will e quite a few REDS coming in for an upgrade.

EWPIC is a very wise and smart move for RED IMHO, each will have to decide wether it suits his/her needs. I don't know yet, but I can definitely see some it fits better than RED.
 
THE OFFER OF THE TRADE IN IS INCREDIBLE GUYS. THANK YOU.
I would definitely trade in Red One #344 IF Epic overcomes some of the less "pro" limitations (not many in my opinion) of the Red One. BIGGEST issue is the sensor's rolling shutter.
Is is possible to design the sensor to choose a GLOBAL shutter at low frame rates and ROLLING shutter only as necessary?
Or, can we add more processing power to address quadrants of the sensor at the same time and eliminate skew and facilitate the use of strobes with Epic? Skew and strobe sync is a deal-breaker for many projects.
Other suggestions; take them for what they are:
More rugged connectors for AV in-out.
Larger, more rugged knobs to spin vs. the joystick.
I'm not an audio guy, but dedicated knobs for levels would make the boys in the sound dept. happy.
Sleep mode.
Voltage reader in line for the use of ANY battery.
MACHINED PARTS> I WILL pay a premium.
The ability to individually set ANY OUTPUT (EVF, LCD, Preview, 1080) to have menus, info, lines, look-around, false color, whatever. Or to NOT have those things and show the recorded image ONLY.
i-data pins and lens metadata.
I'm sure you guys have already done so, but I hope that you carefully research the costs of making a more "pro", more flexible camera with more processing power before settling on a price. We want you to make money, and we would love to eliminate some compromises.
There is a core group of us willing to pay more for a better product. I promise. Just make sure you can provide a compelling, robust upgrade at the price.
Cheers,
Harry
 
GG69 said:
How did you find out its $40,000 TBD???
Click to expand...
TBD= to be disclosed or announced..the reason I stated this is because I am not sure that a 40k price tag are official words from RED.
 
Ted confirms the price on several NAB 2008 youtube videos... also confirmed I believe by the Freshdv video (great job all around to Kendall and Matt for all those videos--great turn around- great information!) and finally I believe it was confirmed by Mike on his infamous podcast here (#3)...

http://www.fxguide.com/redcentre


Hope this helps gentlemen.
 
Thanks for the clear up! I knew what 'TBD' meant, its just the '$40,000' I was questioning! I was quite shocked when I first read the 'rumoured' price, is all. :-)
 
Andrew Benz said:
Ted confirms the price on several NAB 2008 youtube videos... also confirmed I believe by the Freshdv video (great job all around to Kendall and Matt for all those videos--great turn around- great information!) and finally I believe it was confirmed by Mike on his infamous podcast here (#3)...

http://www.fxguide.com/redcentre


Hope this helps gentlemen.
Click to expand...
.
Ok, thank for clearing that up. Ill edit my posts
 
I'm sure you'll be paying for more than just increased resolution. I mean Red One and Dalsa Origin have similar "resolutions," yet from what I've heard, the Origin imaging chip costs Dalsa almost as much as the price of an entire Red One body.
 
Stephen Gentle said:
By my calculations it's 5,308,416 pixels (5.3 megapixels) bigger than 4K. That's 1.56 times (or 56%) bigger.
Click to expand...

Hey! stop copying my posts, i did the math earlier (with a virtual scientific calculator no less), its more like 56.25% :biggrin:
 
A lot of this comes down to an issue I discussed several months back with respect to cine vs. photo lenses. When building just about any sort of non-trivial product, you face diminishing returns in terms of cost/benefit past a certain point. In other words, you reach a point where making a product slightly better is going to cost a lot more.

In a market where there's a pool of high-end customers with deep pockets, though, it can make perfect sense to introduce products that go well beyond what most people would consider the point of diminishing returns. Sure, the Red One is good enough, even for theatrical exhibition. But why not offer customers with deep pockets the absolute best thing you can make? Even if it costs a lot more and is only marginally better, it's not a major expense by their standards and they want to have the best.

There's no conflict between Red wanting to make high-quality digital cinematography available to indies, and Red wanting to make a money-is-no-object camera for the high-end of the market. (Which is still cheaper than all of its serious competitors, incidentally.) In fact, the two will probably compliment each other pretty well. Selling lower end cameras gives Red more units to amortize R&D over. Meanwhile, Red can try new things out at the high-end, where there's less cost sensitivity, and then, as Moore's Law inevitably makes everything cheaper, bring those already battle-tested technologies to its more affordable cameras.
 
Chris Kenny said:
There's no conflict between Red wanting to make high-quality digital cinematography available to indies, and Red wanting to make a money-is-no-object camera for the high-end of the market.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be so sure.
 
harryclark said:
THE OFFER OF THE TRADE IN IS INCREDIBLE GUYS. THANK YOU.
I would definitely trade in Red One #344 IF Epic overcomes some of the less "pro" limitations (not many in my opinion) of the Red One. BIGGEST issue is the sensor's rolling shutter.
Is is possible to design the sensor to choose a GLOBAL shutter at low frame rates and ROLLING shutter only as necessary?
Or, can we add more processing power to address quadrants of the sensor at the same time and eliminate skew and facilitate the use of strobes with Epic? Skew and strobe sync is a deal-breaker for many projects.

Cheers,
Harry
Click to expand...

I agree that the rolling shutter is the biggest issue. I'm getting stretchy footage from people just being animated when they speak. If they move their face too quickly it stretches and angles. So, I'd pay extra for any of those options. Or even a Standard and Highspeed version of the Epic or Red One (preferably the Red One, because then I could have both versions for the same price as one Epic). Have a standard model with a global shutter that shoots at 24/25fps, and then a highspeed that gives you all of the faster framerates.
 
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