Is 1k more really worth $24,000 more

[RicanJoe]

( CONTINUED) than the RED ONE? I'm guessing that EpIc will feature out of this world features to compensate. Things that the RED ONE could not provide due to hardware limitations. What do you guys think, what is EPIC hiding behind its hefty $40,000 price tag?

 

[Jeff Coatney]

Wouldn't it be cool if Epic had an integrated RED RAY that feeds to a real 4K monitor on set? A 4K tap?

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

( CONTINUED) than the RED ONE? The price of EpIc is still to be determined, I believe. Im guessing that EpIc will feature out of this world features to compensate. Things that the RED ONE could not provide due to hardware limitations. What do you guy think, what is EPIC hiding behind its hefty ($40,000 TBD) price?

100fps instead of 60 and a 100MB/s codec on 5K - REDone has a 36MB/s and a 28.

(which theoretically means 200fps+ on 2K)

Fredrik

 

[Michael "Dorkman" Scott]

100fps instead of 60 and a 100MB/s codec on 5K - REDone has a 36MB/s and a 28.

(which theoretically means 200fps+ on 2K)

But what about the confirmed RED ONE sensor upgrade when Epic ships? Isn't it possible we'll get, say, 110fps at 100MB/s?

The value of Epic depends heavily on what the R1 sensor upgrade entails.

 

[Peter McCully]

But what about the confirmed RED ONE sensor upgrade when Epic ships? Isn't it possible we'll get, say, 110fps at 100MB/s?

The value of Epic depends heavily on what the R1 sensor upgrade entails.

Also the issue of the rolling shutter. Has this been cracked in the Epic?

 

[Michael "Dorkman" Scott]

Jim says it's a 40% improvement on the Mysterium X.

 

[Peter Majtan]

Mind you guys - the same specs are announced for $ 3000,- Scarlet as well:

1-120 FPS (180FPS BURST)
UP TO 100 MB/SEC REDCODE RAW AND RGB RECORDING TO DUAL COMPACT FLASH

 

[Peter Majtan]

Which brings me to another question:

How would the compression affect the footage if both 3K (Scarlet) and 5K (EPIC) can record at up to 100MBps?

I remember when the first 900 series HD-CAM cam out of Sony and I almost puked when I saw the compression artifacts on a still...

I'm sure this (puking) won't be the case with RED, but the point is really good - is really the 1K extra worth the money? Especially considering that most workflow and distribution channels are still catching up to 4K...

Even RED own "distribution/presentation" products announced were 4K...

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

But what about the confirmed RED ONE sensor upgrade when Epic ships? Isn't it possible we'll get, say, 110fps at 100MB/s?

The value of Epic depends heavily on what the R1 sensor upgrade entails.

Absolutely but we don't know what the upgrade will cost? Or what restrictions that will be set for it. Something have to make Epic the higher range camera.

Fredrik

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

just looking to the specs:
is 1k really worth 20k...

when i look to scarlet, its 3k for 3000....red is 1k more and costs 14500 more.
but the advantage of the one over scarlet is not the 1k, its the PL Mount...so i see immediatly the higher value...

on epic i dont get yet whats the difference...will there be a rawport option?
dont know...it cant be the 1k...but we shouldnt forget that this 1k makes a big difference to the red one if you really want to finish in 4k, involved with heavy vfx...

because reds 4k....is almost 3,2 k when transcoded to a RGB Image...so much less then 4k....

With Epic you really get 4k RGB....
The Chairman of a camera company (was it Arri?dont want to blame him) said something like;

You cant get 4k out of a 4k cam.....which is true...so if you really need the 4k
for heavy Post...then the 20k are worth the difference!?

my conclusion:
red one-----2k finish
epic--------4k finish

makes for me 4x higher quality finish for 2x the price.................EPIC is a Steal!

 

[Paris Remillard]

Jim says it's a 40% improvement on the Mysterium X.

Are you referring to skew? So what does that mean, a 40% faster readout? I guess that would make sense since the Mysterium X sensor is 100fps at full rez, or 40% faster than the Mysterium at 60fps at full rez.

 

[Teague Kennedy]

my conclusion:
red one-----2k finish
epic--------4k finish

or ... red one 4k finish 20(or whatever)% softer. (still more sharp than 35mm film)
epic finish at 4k.

Are Ralph Lauren jeans really worth 10 times a pair of Levis? No, but for those who can afford it, they will buy the best. Gives them a fuzzy feeling.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

or ... red one 4k finish 20(or whatever)% softer. (still more sharp than 35mm film)
epic finish at 4k.

Are Ralph Lauren jeans really worth 10 times a pair of Levis? No, but for those who can afford it, they will buy the best. Gives them a fuzzy feeling.

why do you think its 20% softer...?

4k has around x1.5 more resolution then 3,2k...hey i am really interested in your calculation...maybe i am missing something

 

[Stuart English]

Epic

Epic

my conclusion:
red one-----2k finish
epic--------4k finish

How about RED-ONE for a 2K or 4K finish....EPIC for a 2K or 4K finish, or when an absolutely pristine 4K image at high frame rates is a must have requirement - such as for Visual FX, advertising applications etc.

RED-ONE images are stunning, (the 4K screening confirms that) but there is still a level of acquisition tool above that, EPIC fulfills that role.

 

[Alexander Nikishin]

I honestly hope Epic abandons the rolling shutter route.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

absolutely pristine 4K image at high frame rates is a must have requirement - such as for Visual FX, advertising applications etc.

ok so this is a factor i didn`t thought of.....high frame rate 4k shots...

this is one more advantage comparing to the red one...

the red one can not deliver, even after a sensor update....a 4k rgb high frame rate shot...(technical pov)
but visually there is little difference...
ergo its really important for vfx guys...ok hope i got it now

(hey i am just figuering out, you are the tech wizzards)

 

[Paris Remillard]

I honestly hope Epic abandons the rolling shutter route.

Me too. But if I've understood correctly, fast frame rates wouldn't be possible with a global shutter. At least not as fast as a rolling shutter allows. But I 'd happily accept slower frame rates for no skew or half frame exposures, personally.

 

[Stuart English]

Fast frame rates

Fast frame rates

Me too. But if I've understood correctly, fast frame rates wouldn't be possible with a global shutter

You are correct in your assumption.

 

[Justin O'Neill]

We have clients who would no question pay a large premium for 1k more in horizontal resolution. The added vertical resolution will be even more important to some.

 

[conrad gaunt]

( CONTINUED) than the RED ONE? The price of EpIc is still to be determined, I believe. Im guessing that EpIc will feature out of this world features to compensate. Things that the RED ONE could not provide due to hardware limitations. What do you guy think, what is EPIC hiding behind its hefty ($40,000 TBD) price?

It shouldn`t be thought of as just a 1k improvement I bet...

its got a 1.25x increase in horizontal resolution, probably accompanied by another 1.25x increase in vertical resolution, which

= 1.25x1.25 = 1.5625x increase in resolution.

Or put another way , 56.25% more pixels, plus new sensor with less skew, faster fps, possibly more DNR (and available in 4k for Red 1s too apparently!). Other than the benefits of the new sensor, you can bet the exact specks won`t be nailed down for a while either. I`ve already read Jim suggesting that syncing up two cameras for 3D stereo stuff is worth exploring as an idea. Redalchemy is at work.

Also, I notice, the new redcode data rate (100mb etc, is 3x current 27/36mb, roughly) , which allows for twice as much data per pixel available (as 5K sensor will have roughly 1.5x, extra pixels, although that will depend on fps too, er, more math needed).