iPhone 4S, iOS 5 and cloud service about to go live on Apple website

[AndrewThomas]

Jeff, the voice/data issue is a network problem. You won't be able to simultaneous voice/data until there is an LTE/WiMax iPhone as the way Verizon/Sprint phones are able to do is to do data over LTE/WiMax band and voice of the 2G/3G band. The AT&T iPhone will still be the only one that can do it at the same time. I'm still switching to Sprint as I want to get unlimited data for the rest of my lines (I've had an iPhone since the original on AT&T so I was grandfathered in, but none of the other 12 lines I have are) and its a good clip cheaper for me.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

I think in time people will realize, that Siri introduction was a watershed event for new type of interaction with the phone, just like the multitouch was at the time. Siri hasn't received much coverage, but I can't wait to try it out. Once again, Apple leads the way. I just hope it understands my accent

You used to be able to download Siri for iPhone, and it was no great shakes.

Its the sort of thing that worked great in a demo, but not so hot in the real world. In my studio, it was pretty awesome, out running or driving ... it rarely understood.

Now ... part of that is processing power. It worked notably better on my 3GS than on my 3G. If you look at Google voice ... that actually processes the voice recognition on Google servers. So .... it could be that the A5 processor will make a huge difference in practice.

 

[Alex Kiritz]

Well, the 7X is a composite number, not my number, it's Apple's. But it's pretty logical how they come about it. The A5 is roughly 2~2.5X as powerful per clock cycle per core vs. the A4. There's 2 cores. It has a faster memory bus and double the RAM to work with. It has a 9-core GPU vs. the dual-core GPU found in the iPad, iPhone4 and 3GS... Just being announced today, we'll have to wait until people get one here next week to start seeing benchmark tests. But I'm expecting the numbers to line up, just the way we get about 6~8X overall increase in performance from the iPad to iPad2 when we can load up both cores and push on the GPU.

For generalized, single-threaded apps that are not GPU-intensive, yeah. It's only going to show about a 2 to 2.5 times increase... All in how the software is written to use what's available. Kinda like buying a monster system with 12-cores... Sure, the power is there, but does most software attempt to use it, let alone benefit from it? Nope. That said, many iOS apps are making use of the dual-core A5.

I still think it's more like a 2X difference but you seem to have more experience in this area than me so I won't question you.

LTE available everywhere? Everywhere in Los Angeles, maybe. Yeah, we have it here in Denver too, and a couple select suburb areas... I travel all over the place, mostly the southwest USA. As you can see by the coverage map I just pulled, many areas don't have 3G yet, let alone LTE. Plenty of major cities where LTE is still somewhere on the roadmap for a couple years from now. If I want LTE, I have to drive downtown to use it.

If they had put in an LTE chip either people would have been able to use it or not. I don't think people would be mad to have a feature that they will only be able to use in the future. I think they just left it out so that they could flush out their spec sheet for the next edition. It's just slowing down innovation for the sake of a few points on the stock market.

So, what changes do you think they should have made? The upgrades are incremental, as expected. It's got the CPU and GPU most people expected and were hoping for. LTE wasn't going to happen, not with all the current lawsuits and licensing issues flying around. That and no integrated chipset to support it as well as GSM and space inside the phone has to be at a premium, I doubt they want to have a separate CDMA and GSM chipset inside the phone in order to support one standard that currently serves only about half of the larger cities in the US and barely anywhere else.

I think they should have flattened out the iPhone 4 into an iPhone 4S with the same specs as the last iPhone and released a new iPhone 5 with the new specs and a larger, better screen. Apple recognizes in it's non-iOS product lineups that there are powers users and non power users yet due to their approach the iPhone switches from being the cutting edge phone for power users to the outdated phone for non-power users every 2 years or so.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. I'm sure Apple will have their updated CPU, possibly called the A6, in the iPad 3 announced here in about 6 months. And we'll have a new iPhone in 4 to 6 months after that. It's a perpetual cycle... All the Android device makers are following similar paradigms. As I develop iOS apps (Android apps too), I have to get one. And I may as well make it my own phone since I'm still using a 3GS that is showing signs of a decaying battery. But I have every other model of iDevice here. I've got a whole worktable full of Android devices too. It actually kinda sucks. Have to buy all kinds of devices and crap for testing and appeasing clients. I'm actually not looking forward to the iPad3.. Because I'll have to buy a couple the second they're available. I already own 4 iPad2's... Ugh. I'm thrilled that we're getting unified iPhones now, this iteration I only need to buy one instead of two -- yay!

I'm sure they will have this new hi-res iPad3 in a few months which I might replace my laptop with but they're definitely not releasing a new iPhone for at least a year. They clearly that want to release Macbook Airs during the back to school season, iPhones and iPods for the holiday season and professional products after new processors come out generally after the new year. I think this new arrangement is a sign of Apple's demise. This move shows me that they're prioritizing having maximum sales over having the best products.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Jeff, the voice/data issue is a network problem.

Seems I've been told that more than once before and I somehow forget...

As for Siri, all we can do is wait for the chance to use it in the real world. The A5 CPU should help a lot here. But the actual performance and usability remain to be seen. I think this is where it's all headed.

 

[Scott Crawley]

If you watch the presentation, I believe they mention that the voice recognition dictation is handed off to their systems. I wonder if all similar tasks are managed that way.

... part of that is processing power. It worked notably better on my 3GS than on my 3G. If you look at Google voice ... that actually processes the voice recognition on Google servers. So .... it could be that the A5 processor will make a huge difference in practice.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

I think this new arrangement is a sign of Apple's demise.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Wait ... is he serious? Oh that's so darling!

The company with the largest stock valuation in the world is going to meet its demise by following the same business plan that made it the biggest company in the world?

Maybe he thinks it's a new idea? That he's the first to sound the Apple death knell?

I think you ought to pay a bit more attention to the consumer satisfaction reports. Maybe dig a bit deeper on system design and engineering quality. Maybe have a look at how many times Apple has done things that changed the industry, and how often they've been derided at the time for it.

Apple has a different definition of "best" than most companies. Most companies want to get that extra .03GHz into their computers, or shave off a few pennies in this component or that. The end result is that every PC I've ever owned ends up in a garbage heap or recycling center when I am done with it. Most of my Apple devices end up in another users hands and they are very happy with them for years. (My original iPhone was stolen, that's the sole exception ... but I guess it also ended up in another happy users hands.)

Pick up your favorite Android device and use it for a task for an hour. Then grab an iPhone 4 and use it for the same task for an hour. There is a big difference.

I like Android very much. (Can't say the same for Windows ...) but as a platform its second best despite being able to check off some desirable tech features. If you can figure out why that might be, then you can understand and appreciate Apple. If that sounds like non-sense you'll never get it.

The only company I like better is Red.

OK, I'm off the soap box.

 

[Alex Kiritz]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Wait ... is he serious? Oh that's so darling!

The company with the largest stock valuation in the world is going to meet its demise by following the same business plan that made it the biggest company in the world?

Maybe he thinks it's a new idea? That he's the first to sound the Apple death knell?

I think you ought to pay a bit more attention to the consumer satisfaction reports. Maybe dig a bit deeper on system design and engineering quality. Maybe have a look at how many times Apple has done things that changed the industry, and how often they've been derided at the time for it.

Apple has a different definition of "best" than most companies. Most companies want to get that extra .03GHz into their computers, or shave off a few pennies in this component or that. The end result is that every PC I've ever owned ends up in a garbage heap or recycling center when I am done with it. Most of my Apple devices end up in another users hands and they are very happy with them for years. (My original iPhone was stolen, that's the sole exception ... but I guess it also ended up in another happy users hands.)

Pick up your favorite Android device and use it for a task for an hour. Then grab an iPhone 4 and use it for the same task for an hour. There is a big difference.

I like Android very much. (Can't say the same for Windows ...) but as a platform its second best despite being able to check off some desirable tech features. If you can figure out why that might be, then you can understand and appreciate Apple. If that sounds like non-sense you'll never get it.

The only company I like better is Red.

OK, I'm off the soap box.

Apple's success is due to it's prediction of market direction which Steve Jobs was best at. The presentation today showed a lack of someone with the strength to lead Apple and predict what the market wants. Without him it won't have a head start and won't have the time to perfect products and release products competitive with other companies. It will go from being the trendsetter to just another competitor- just like the last time it lost Steve Jobs.

Would you like a Red without Jim?

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Apple's success is due to it's prediction of market direction which Steve Jobs was best at. The presentation today showed a lack of someone with the strength to lead Apple and predict what the market wants. Without him it won't have a head start and won't have the time to perfect products and release products competitive with other companies. It will go from being the trendsetter to just another competitor- just like the last time it lost Steve Jobs.

(I think he is serious!) :rofl:

Would you like a Red with Jim?

Huh?

 

[AnthonyFlores]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Wait ... is he serious? Oh that's so darling!

The company with the largest stock valuation in the world is going to meet its demise by following the same business plan that made it the biggest company in the world?

Maybe he thinks it's a new idea? That he's the first to sound the Apple death knell?

I think you ought to pay a bit more attention to the consumer satisfaction reports. Maybe dig a bit deeper on system design and engineering quality. Maybe have a look at how many times Apple has done things that changed the industry, and how often they've been derided at the time for it.

Apple has a different definition of "best" than most companies. Most companies want to get that extra .03GHz into their computers, or shave off a few pennies in this component or that. The end result is that every PC I've ever owned ends up in a garbage heap or recycling center when I am done with it. Most of my Apple devices end up in another users hands and they are very happy with them for years. (My original iPhone was stolen, that's the sole exception ... but I guess it also ended up in another happy users hands.)

Pick up your favorite Android device and use it for a task for an hour. Then grab an iPhone 4 and use it for the same task for an hour. There is a big difference.

I like Android very much. (Can't say the same for Windows ...) but as a platform its second best despite being able to check off some desirable tech features. If you can figure out why that might be, then you can understand and appreciate Apple. If that sounds like non-sense you'll never get it.

The only company I like better is Red.

OK, I'm off the soap box.

Amen. Spot on. I've had the same experience in giving away Apple products, not to mention that my Apple computers have typically been used heavily for 5+ years without issues, when you include the time that others have logged with them after I passed them on.

One thing I will say though -- even though I think the "demise" of Apple is ridiculous -- is that that keynote yesterday made me realize just how much Apple will miss Jobs going forward.

The guy is just one in a billion, not only for his vision and being able to see the future, but also transfer his own enthusiasm for the product and it's features. It's remarkable and felt notably missing for me yesterday.

And I say this as someone with the utmost respect for Cook, he will be phenomenal in many ways I'm sure. Heck, he already has been and many say he's the very best at streamlining production, supply chain management, etc.

But Jobs and his ability to sell, communicate and transfer enthusiasm is a great deal "special sauce" that makes Apple magical. There is nothing Cook can do to get or develop that unfortunately ....

Yes, I'm stating the obvious and this is not a unique opinion, it's just that I really saw and felt it more acutely yesterday.

Apple will continue to grow and thrive, but when you consider that even yesterday's announcement would have felt and been perceived to be better had Jobs given the keynote, it's becoming apparent how much he'll be missed.

 

[Patrick Grossien]

ah, faster, shmaster....

I just smiled at the sentence: "1080p HD video recording. just the resolution you want"
and as I posted on the Scarlet announce thread.... let's rephrase that into

"1080p is good enough for ya? Get an iPhone"

 

[Scott Crawley]

Amen. Spot on. I've had the same experience in giving away Apple products, not to mention that my Apple computers have typically been used heavily for 5+ years without issues, when you include the time that others have logged with them after I passed them on.

One thing I will say though -- even though I think the "demise" of Apple is ridiculous -- is that that keynote yesterday made me realize just how much Apple will miss Jobs going forward.

The guy is just one in a billion, not only for his vision and being able to see the future, but also transfer his own enthusiasm for the product and it's features. It's remarkable and felt notably missing for me yesterday.

And I say this as someone with the utmost respect for Cook, he will be phenomenal in many ways I'm sure. Heck, he already has been and many say he's the very best at streamlining production, supply chain management, etc.

But Jobs and his ability to sell, communicate and transfer enthusiasm is a great deal "special sauce" that makes Apple magical. There is nothing Cook can do to get or develop that unfortunately ....

Yes, I'm stating the obvious and this is not a unique opinion, it's just that I really saw and felt it more acutely yesterday.

Apple will continue to grow and thrive, but when you consider that even yesterday's announcement would have felt and been perceived to be better had Jobs given the keynote, it's becoming apparent how much he'll be missed.

I agree with most all of that, save for one idea. I am optimistic about Cook's presentation. Yes it was flat, slow and a little dry, but it was almost flawless otherwise. He clearly has that passion, if he can cut loose and let it fly he could come pretty close to the bar that Jobs has set. He has potential, I think.

My biggest criticism is that there were too many speakers saying the same things. It was too long. I like to sit down and revel in the keynotes as much as the next guy, but when you don't have the magic working, keep it streamlined. Please.

"1080p is good enough for ya? Get an iPhone"

Haha, I've been waiting for the day that became true. It didn't take long at all.

 

[Bryce O]

ah, faster, shmaster....

I just smiled at the sentence: "1080p HD video recording. just the resolution you want"
and as I posted on the Scarlet announce thread.... let's rephrase that into

"1080p is good enough for ya? Get an iPhone"

haha. I was just about to mention this.

How do you know 1080p isn't enough? ...when your cell phone does it. :dita:

Anyways... congrats to Apple for reaching Alexa resolution. :biggrin5:

Sony, Pana, Canon, everyone else... step it up. I'm not going to spend a dime on "professional" cameras anymore that are shooting to the same resolution format as cell phones.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

"1080p" is same marketing BS as a DSLR.
Not really comparable to professional video capture devices.


Regarding Siri,

It will be funny (and sad) if folks start to getting used to hearing an electronic voice reading a text input by a human voice.
On a phone.

 

[Patrick Grossien]

"1080p" is same marketing BS as a DSLR.
Not really comparable to professional video capture devices.

of course, but if you take that into account it's not only half as funny

 

[Bryce O]

of course, but if you take that into account it's not only half as funny

yea, what he said... :cheers2:

 

[Tim Hole]

Can't believe they have removed multi-gesture ability on iPad 1st gen in IOS5.

What's the f#€king point, why remove features in an update? That is just going to encourage people to jailbreak.

Removing Siri from the AppStore was bad enough but seriously that's how I navigate with my iPad...seriously pissed off, don't like the 2nd Gen and feel no wish to upgrade till next one.

My DAGi stopped working today too...has to be a coincidence that it stopped working the day I upgraded the OS.

 

[BillBarnes]

Agreed Tim, I upgraded yesterday and miss these gesture features greatly. Hopefully it'll be back soon, similar to the rotation lock / mute button situation. Best of luck,

Bill

 

[Subhadip Sen]

It's probably just planned obsolescence. It's nothing new, it's rampant throughout the tech industry (actually just about tech oriented, really, including cameras) and Apple are pioneers at it. Same reason why Siri was removed from older iPhones once 4S was announced.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Planned obsolescence is probably a factor. The other factor being that the original iPad has half as much memory and is a lot less powerful. Multitasking gestures worked, but they were never 100% on the original iPad. They only made a brief appearance as an option to be enabled by general users, anyone using them for more than just the past couple months had been enabling them through XCode or other methods. The multi-gestures have been hotly debated in the developer forums since they were first introduced by Apple to ADC members. A handful of apps already used 4-finger swipes for specific functions and some developers took issues with it. When Apple did release to the masses, it became an option within the settings to enable or disable.

With iOS5 it kinda makes sense as to why they would pull it from the iPad 1... I'm not so sure that is the right decision, I think they should have left it as an option. While the developer community has been polarized on the multi-gestures, it seems the user community is in arms over it and everyone just wants the choice to be able to switch them on or off. I agree. Hopefully Apple will take a good look at this before the next iOS point release.

 

[Tim Hole]

Cool. I hope they do put it back as an option, though I doubt they will. Its like someone taking away my hotkey's, its how I navigate. I didn't realise it was such a hot topic amongst the developer tribe (not my world at all), and I understand Subhadip's point. Its the simple four finger swipe to other running apps and the five finger close. Funny how something so small can really thow you. Especially as onset tools, I probably use half a dozen apps simultaneously jumping from one to the other. Repeatedly pressing that home key is a pain in the ass, but at lease with the Otterbox case and the Kraken case both cover up the home key so its less likely to get damaged.

Cheers