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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

iPad Pro As Monitor

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Stephen B Diaz

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Hey...so does anyone know if you can use the new iPad pro as a monitor?

It has a USB C connection, so I figured, HDMI out to USB C could work. That retina display could be awesome. You could theoretically run it as a monitor and use fool control on the iPad to control the camera yeah?

Does anyone know if this is possible?
 
The new pro can output video over that to an external monitor, whether it can display incoming video i'm not sure.

I can't help feeling the *potential* with these devices is huge. Imagine an incoming image with iPad overlay on it talking back to the camera. Fool control with monitoring. That would be pretty cool.

cheers
Paul
 
Yeah all existing options I'm aware of send wireless or wired highly compressed video to the ios/Android device with some lag involved. I use my iPad as a monitor all the time with my teradek clips but I'm not sure I'd use it for color or focus. Due to the compression/resolution and lag.

Perhaps it'd be possible for blackmagic to port their USB intensity capture device to IOS though.
 
I can take my RED into an apple store and see if they'd let me try?
 
I would be more interested in RED making an app for iPad Pro that allows me to connect a Red Mini-Mag reader over USB-C and playback and color correct .R3D files. :)
 
andrewhake said:
I would be more interested in RED making an app for iPad Pro that allows me to connect a Red Mini-Mag reader over USB-C and playback and color correct .R3D files. :)
Click to expand...

Connecting shouldn't be a problem. There's no SDK for decoding Red on iOS (I did look a while back ;) ) but your biggest issue is storage really. Where do you store all those R3Ds...

cheers
Paul
 
paulcurtis said:
Connecting shouldn't be a problem. There's no SDK for decoding Red on iOS (I did look a while back ;) ) but your biggest issue is storage really. Where do you store all those R3Ds...

cheers
Paul
Click to expand...

Was thinking more along the lines of just reviewing footage and making basic color corrections that get stored in the sidecar files similar to what Redcine-X is used for but just on a single clip level. You could do this right off the mini-mags if you are brave enough I guess.
 
Philip Lanyon said:
When I asked apple about using the iPad Pro as a second monitor for my MacBook Pro through the usb C connection the answer was no. I’ll test it myself but I’m not expecting much .
Click to expand...

As mentioned before, there are systems like duet which using a lightening cable. I used this with a PC a while back using it in premiere as a second monitor. It sort of worked as well. The nice thing about the iPad Pro is that colour wise it's spot on. Makes for a good monitor (although not with premiere as it has no display colour management...)

So maybe the developers of duet would be able to get more out of the system via USB-C?

cheers
Paul
 
Theoretically, an app/hardware combo could make this possible.

The DXO One can plug into iPhones/iPads via the lightning port and provides realtime preview on the device. According to this CNET article, the latency is about 10 milliseconds in this direct connection mode.

To establish some guidelines for how fast the signal would need to be:
- At 60 fps, each frame is 16.66 ms.
- At 50 fps, each frame is 20.00 ms.
- At 30 fps, each frame is 33.33 ms.
- At 24 fps, each frame is 41.66 ms.

Regardless, let's assume 10 milliseconds is the baseline for processing a signal and displaying it on an iPad. While not exactly in the same category, the Teradek Serv Pro has a two frame delay, so best case scenario that's 33.33 ms for 60 fps. That difference should be enough for a better focus pulling experience.


While researching this, this was the first result I found, the Febon iCapture. Captures in 720p. Just from the thumbnail, you can see it's not the cleanest looking setup. However, they have a second video that shows the latency to be right around 80-90 milliseconds (5 frames at 60 fps, 2 at 24 fps).


I'm sure if somebody were to take it upon themselves to develop a professional solution, they could first test and see if you can get an HDMI signal to display on a 2018 iPad Pro without additional hardware, but my guess is that is going to not yield any results. So more realistically, what we're looking for is a specialty designed extremely low latency capture card that outputs to USB-C with 3.1 Gen 2 and is designed with use with a professional viewing app. Maybe it's possible to have something that's faster than 10 milliseconds of delay too.

As for using with foolcontrol, that'd depend on if the app and foolcontrol both would work well in Split View or Slide Over.
 
I am guessing the software stack to implement HDMI (handshaking) is non-trivial - and that the tranformation of HDMI image would be more straightforward.

If Apple have implemented HDMI ALT Mode (ie transporting HDMI over USB C) - this would also make the ex-Apple devs (Duet's) lives easier if they wanted to enhance their App.

If the HDMI transformation on IPad was left to METAL2, Ipad battery power utilisation would not be taxing.

Apple probably needs to agree upfront that they would not block this (there might be a legal side to preventing HDMI data from being extracted).

If Apple give their blessing, and have implemented (and are not blocking) HMDI ALT Mode - perhaps a sweetener would be for RED to extend the RCP (Red Control Protocol) to accept remote Screen Touch input (ie User pressed, User dragged) commands over RCP. It would open up remote control apps like FC & INK to have a 'Native' RED GUI screen mode where you would be 'directly' controlling the RED Camera on an IPad.

AJ
 
Thanks for the link to Luna - hadn't heard of it before.

It works wirelessly / and also by USB cable/ has a 16ms lag.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/767721702/luna-display

If they support mini-display port - I wonder if they are already sending images as and HDMI component?

It might be worth reaching out to them to see if they are interested (or can already) do HDMI -> Ipad.
There is likely a 'remote screen' market quite separate from the 'main display' market (for MacOs) they already serve.

AJ

Update : I've just emailed them - and will report back.
 
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I would assume that a well implemented option for using iPads with USB-C as near real time monitors would be very popular around here. That said, questions remain:

1) Would Apple be copacetic?

2) Assuming a hardware adapter was required to turn HDMI or SDI into USB-C, would there be a big enough market to spread out the dev (NRE) costs?

3) Would it require more graphics muscle inside the iPad that it has?

4) Would HDCP have to be dealt with to avoid potential piracy?

5) Could a laptop serve the same purpose? Especially one that folds back on itself to put the keyboard part out of the way?

Cheers - #19
 
What's the difference with applications like Duet Display?
It's possible to do the same with a Macbook Pro?
 
Response from Luna:

“Hi Antony,

Luna Display requires a Mac OS application in order to function. Given that requirement, it is currently not possible to transmit the camera screen to the iPad without involving a Mac and a Wi-Fi network.

Jake”

I guess this means the developer is streaming (sending) a format that is Metal friendly - for a lightweight (and lower power display).

With the uptick in GPU & CPU performance of the latest iPad Pro - it would be worth seeing so the sort of latency of software decode.

This time next year, Intel’s Wireless (5G) will run run at very 800 MB/sec.
Wireless stereo vdeo transmission must surely be on someone’s cards?

AJ

Update : Looks like Apple is poaching some of Samsung’s 5G engineers ...
 
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Michael Cioni's Light Iron Digital has pitched LivePlay as a way of seeing secure instant replays via iPad on set for several years now:


http://lightiron.com/services/on-set/

Michael says they have a proprietary method to calibrate the displays so that the director and DP will see a reasonably-decent picture, but there are still limitations with what is, essentially, a $100 computer screen.
 
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