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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Invest in RED Epic Dragon?? Or Wait?

Guys, your input is very valuable and has good points, however I should've mentioned that everything I said was from a "rental" perspective, meaning that you are in a rental game renting either only a camera or combining your camera with your DP skills as a selling point.

You are speaking from an "owner/operator" standpoint.

If I didn't give a damn about rentals I'd be happy with a Raven.

Honestly producers from middle segment and up just don't care about all the tech specs and redcodes and Ks and everything we are discussing here. If they have the budget, they want top gear. After all, why not if they can.
 
Demetri Zuev said:
Guys, your input is very valuable and has good points, however I should've mentioned that everything I said was from a "rental" perspective, meaning that you are in a rental game renting either only a camera or combining your camera with your DP skills as a selling point.

You are speaking from an "owner/operator" standpoint.

If I didn't give a damn about rentals I'd be happy with a Raven.

Honestly producers from middle segment and up just don't care about all the tech specs and redcodes and Ks and everything we are discussing here. If they have the budget, they want top gear. After all, why not if they can.
Click to expand...

For rental, Carbon is probably way to go.
 
Michael,
I think I read somewhere that the higher data rate for Raven when compared to the Scarlet is because the Raven is pushing a lot less information. Scarlet Dragon has a 19 megapixel sensor, while Raven's is just 9.9. I may be misinterpreting, but am I not still getting more overall data collected with Scarlet Dragon than I am with Raven? I may be way off base here....
 
Scot Yount said:
Michael,
I think I read somewhere that the higher data rate for Raven when compared to the Scarlet is because the Raven is pushing a lot less information. Scarlet Dragon has a 19 megapixel sensor, while Raven's is just 9.9. I may be misinterpreting, but am I not still getting more overall data collected with Scarlet Dragon than I am with Raven? I may be way off base here....
Click to expand...

The data rates are based on what's actually being written to the MiniMag card.
 
Scot Yount said:
Michael,
I think I read somewhere that the higher data rate for Raven when compared to the Scarlet is because the Raven is pushing a lot less information. Scarlet Dragon has a 19 megapixel sensor, while Raven's is just 9.9. I may be misinterpreting, but am I not still getting more overall data collected with Scarlet Dragon than I am with Raven? I may be way off base here....
Click to expand...

Even with that, Raven appears capable of more data - hence 4K 3:1 compression.
 
Nick Morrison said:
For rental, Carbon is probably way to go.
Click to expand...

In terms of operation and weight there's not much difference between CF and MG, if however clients want 4K ProRes that might be a problem, but for R3D raw work with proxy prores, the MG will do just fine.
I really like to hear why people would want to rent CF over MG.
 
Data rate I am guessing?

WEAPON DRAGON (Carbon Fiber) up to 300 MB/s
WEAPON DRAGON (Magnesium) up to 225 MB/s
EPIC DRAGON up to 200 MB/s
SCARLET DRAGON up to 72 MB/s
RAVEN DRAGON up to 140 MB/s
 
I was curious with these data rates. What is 5KHD and 6K HD compression on Dragon versus MG?

I know someone put a list together somewhere???
 
Tarquin Cardona said:
I was curious with these data rates. What is 5KHD and 6K HD compression on Dragon versus MG?

I know someone put a list together somewhere???
Click to expand...

Very similar. But Magnesium's lower noise floor appears to let you get away with more compression. So the difference is much more than just compression levels and data rates. The way Weapon processes the Dragon sensor seems MUCH improved...across the board...which needs to be added to the equation.
 
Nick Morrison said:
Very similar. But Magnesium's lower noise floor appears to let you get away with more compression. So the difference is much more than just compression levels and data rates. The way Weapon processes the Dragon sensor seems MUCH improved...across the board...which needs to be added to the equation.
Click to expand...

Yes thanks. I get what you are saying and am thinking MG a great way to go. Also the ease of use, lighter power draw, ABS, feel like worth the step up. Based on what you are saying seems like we have similar issues where being smart about how much data and media you are blowing through is a key factor to keep in the mix.
 
If you have a narrative story in hand ready to shoot, then grab an Epic D w/ the the new Standard OLPF and GO!

If not, then finish your story and ya may as well save while you're at it and get whatever.

Epic D is an awesome camera and I suspect we will see movies from it for decades still
 
Demetri Zuev said:
If I didn't give a damn about rentals I'd be happy with a Raven.

Honestly producers from middle segment and up just don't care about all the tech specs and redcodes and Ks and everything we are discussing here. If they have the budget, they want top gear. After all, why not if they can.
Click to expand...
I think it completely depends on your market. I am buying a MG Weapon specifically for rentals, and I'm sure that in my market producers will GREATLY appreciate the lower rental rates I can charge them for basically top-shelf performance. If I bought a CF Weapon, I'd have to charge a significantly higher day rate to get the necessary ROI on the extra $20K of cost. I'm investing in a couple of Ravens for the same reason…reasonably high performance at a very low day rate and I can still pay the body off in a year.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
In terms of operation and weight there's not much difference between CF and MG, if however clients want 4K ProRes that might be a problem, but for R3D raw work with proxy prores, the MG will do just fine.
I really like to hear why people would want to rent CF over MG.
Click to expand...

I meant for rental.

For owner ops, I think Magenisum makes lots of sense. For day to day usage at 5:1, you'd never know the difference - especially on 240 mags that essenttially cap Carbon to Magnesium data rates anyway.
 
scott, i was in a similar situation that you're in, just a few months back.

i was on scarlet dragon at the time of the weapon announcement, and was lucky enough to be at NAB and see the weapon first hand. i was (and still am) VERY new to the red ecosystem, so i asked as many questions as i could to the most knowledgeable people i could find. the deciding factor for me quickly became 8K. i couldn't get there unless i went all the way to carbon, and that was(and still is) out of my reach. BUT, i could get to 6K with better image results with epic dragon. I'm very happy with my choice thus far, as i don't need pro-res on board, and with the new standard OLPF, the imagery my epic dragon can produce have amplified once again. you're going to be able to make awesome imagery with any choice you make, because red makes awesome cameras. good luck with your decision... ill be over here in north carolina saving my pennies for 8K.

:)

joey
 
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