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Infrared Improvements in Epic?

Mark Pugh

Mark Pugh

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Can anyone from Red please shed (visible) light on the performance of the Mysterium X with regard to infrared pollution. I can't recall ever reading a post from a Red representative about this. Certainly no mention on Oct 30.

There'll certainly be noise if there isn't a positive improvement in the situation from the Red One.
Thanks.
 
This may be a question for the TATTOO group... Hopefully IR handling has improved, but this is difficult with CMOS sensors and too much IR blocking in the camera can result in other problems like internal reflections or diffraction, or interfere with the OLPF. And probably a number of other things I haven't thought of...
 
The Canon DSLRs I've used seem to do OK with colors in the presence of IR as far as I've noticed, for example the colors of flames look more or less correct. So maybe if they do as good as a typical CMOS-sensor DSLR, that's good enough for many purposes.
 
And has any provision been made in these cameras for IR "cinemaphotography" by removing the IR filtering without the need to to specifically modify the sensor? Although, I guess this could be another example of the benefits of the modular design concept Red have introduced. Just buy another brain and mod it. No need to duplicate anything else in the kit, just swap the brains out.
 
self cleaning sensor

self cleaning sensor

Shane Betts said:
And has any provision been made in these cameras for IR "cinemaphotography" by removing the IR filtering without the need to to specifically modify the sensor? Although, I guess this could be another example of the benefits of the modular design concept Red have introduced. Just buy another brain and mod it. No need to duplicate anything else in the kit, just swap the brains out.
Click to expand...

In danger of repeating ourselves :)
Creating a front of sensor filter drawer/slot would enable elimination of ND or CC filters in the mattbox as well as removing IR filter.
A series of combo ND/IR CC/IR and ND/CC/IR filters would find favor on those jobs where significant time would be spent shooting under a given lighting regime.

Interestingly Sony used to say that its filter wheel in pro cameras had to be replaced under "clean room" conditions, to reduce the risk of dust gathering between sensor and filter wheel surfaces. However as I understand it, this has been proven to be unnecessary.

It seems feasible to create a series of ducts and channels around a sensor or internal filter that could direct compressed air from a "dust off" can and so remove dust.

The self cleaning sensor!


Mike Brennan
 
jbeale said:
The Canon DSLRs I've used seem to do OK with colors in the presence of IR as far as I've noticed, for example the colors of flames look more or less correct. So maybe if they do as good as a typical CMOS-sensor DSLR, that's good enough for many purposes.
Click to expand...

Put a heavy ND filter on a Canon DSLR and it does not seem to be much different than Red. I have a big collection of IR contaminated shots using whole range of Canon DSLRs.

I think it is very difficult, if not impossible, to design an absorption type IR filter that would pass visible spectrum with no side effects.

I have no problem using external IRNDs, just would like to have some Pancros above 2.0 which, I hear, are next to impossible to produce too.:cry:
 
I picked up a couple of Tiffen 4x5.6 IR coated NDs. I was told that this would be helpful during sunrise, sunset, dusk, magic hour, etc, to keep noise out of the blacks?

What if I am shooting in extreme low light, lens wide open, and don't want to lose a stop? Is there such thing as a clear IR filter? Is this something I need to worry about with MX?
 
Tom Lowe said:
I picked up a couple of Tiffen 4x5.6 IR coated NDs. I was told that this would be helpful during sunrise, sunset, dusk, magic hour, etc, to keep noise out of the blacks?

What if I am shooting in extreme low light, lens wide open, and don't want to lose a stop? Is there such thing as a clear IR filter? Is this something I need to worry about with MX?
Click to expand...
There is Tom; we have it, it's the Formatt Clear IR filter. Bought it from Abel Cine as part of the set they offer: 5 filters comprising Clear IR, IRND1.2, ND0.9, ND0.6 and ND0.3 in 4x5.65" Panasize. With that combination you can have IR suppression plus anywhere from 0.3 to 2.1ND with just two filter stages.

HTH

Paul
 
Mark Pugh said:
Can anyone from Red please shed (visible) light on the performance of the Mysterium X with regard to infrared pollution. I can't recall ever reading a post from a Red representative about this. Certainly no mention on Oct 30.

There'll certainly be noise if there isn't a positive improvement in the situation from the Red One.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure I remember someone from RED saying the "purple sun" issue has been handled, and I think one of the changes for the M-X sensor was a stronger IR filtration. Since the same sensor will be used on Epic, I suppose that applies for it as well.
 
Elsie N said:
Pretty sure I remember someone from RED saying the "purple sun" issue has been handled, and I think one of the changes for the M-X sensor was a stronger IR filtration. Since the same sensor will be used on Epic, I suppose that applies for it as well.
Click to expand...

Correct on both.
 
Tom Lowe said:
What if I want no ND, but am worried about this IR noise in extremely low light, around the time the sun dips below the horizon? Will the Formatt Clear IR filter be useful for me?

Paul, do you have a purchasable link for the Formatt Clear IR in 4x5.6? Much appreciated!

Is this what I'm looking for? http://www.filmtools.com/rosco-tru-color-ir-filter-4x565-panavision.html
Click to expand...
I don't know about the Rosco one, but here's what I ordered:

http://www.abelcine.com/store/Red-Filter-Package-Formatt-IR-ND-4x5.65/

I've used it a couple of times in heavily tungsten lit places (like fashion boutique) and seems to do the job very well (especially noticeable in lack of red focus shift compared to not using it, meaning much sharper images).

HTH

Paul
 
In a side by side test I saw personally last week the MX totally out performed the R1 in IR filtration tests. Much improved.

David
 
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