In the market for RPP or superspeeds, i have a ?

[Domenic Barbero]

would love some feedback here, Im in the market for maybe 3 lenses. a wide, medium and long. Now what are everyones favorite RPP lenses? how do they compare to the cp2's, or superspeeds. Really like the zeiss look. I have a full set of Contax Zeiss primes for the canon mount, but would really like some cine lenses that will mix with them well if needed. Really thinking of RPP or Superspeeds. Who likes what and why?

ideally 14-18mm, 35, 50, or 85 maybe even 100. only can afford 3 though. so if you had to pick what would you choose.

Thanks everyone

 

[Matt Ryan]

RPP's are similar to Zeiss color wise. RPP's are also sharp as hell even wide open. Downside is they are big and heavy, and lacking in witness marks.

Super Speeds are soft and lack contrast wide open, but the advantage here is you have the option of going to a 1.3. They are really sharp around 2.8 and above. They are more expensive than RPP's. They are really small and light which is great for handheld situations. These are one of my favorite lens sets, but hard to find a set for sale. Price for a set of 5 is between $40,000-$55,000. http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?85034-Aesthetics-of-Zeiss-Superspeeds-vs-CP-2

CP.2's out of the 3 are my least favorite, also the slowest speed wise, but keep in mind the new Super Speed version are 1.5's as opposed to the previous CP.2 versions (New SS's are more expensive than RPP's). The nice thing about CP.2's/New CP.2 SS is that they are Full Frame lenses, so they will cover the Dragon sensor in full 6K unlike the other lenses above. They also have the ability to go from PL to EF mount so that could be beneficial as well.

Personally, if I had to choose only 3 lenses for now it would be an 18mm, 35mm, and 50mm. Choice comes down to being sure to future proof your investment as Dragon is a whole new game. It's a tough decision.

 

[Michael Millichamp]

I just purchased a set of CP.2's.

A 28-50-85. I love them.

Let me know if you have any questions about them.

 

[Clint Lealos]

If I could only pick three lenses it would be 18, 35, 85. I would definitely go with Super Speeds.

 

[A. Clint Litton]

Not that I think the RPP's would match so well with your Contax lenses, but...

what about throwing a zoom into the mix? 17-50 RPZ + 85mm. RPZ lacks the speed of the RPP's and the SS's, but it would cover a lot of focal lengths and shooting situations, and may help you move more quickly without the need to constantly change lenses. Along similar lines, how much of a factor is speed (stop), and how much of a factor is weight and size? If you want something PL/Cine to go with your contax, you could go for an older zoom and get some really nice glass for the money. Speeds are awesome and versatile, but man are they costly...

 

[Domenic Barbero]

Thanks guys. I actually just bought an older angie 20-120 f2.6 which is amazing. but its just too big for my style shooting. Most of the time i get thrown into projects and they always happen to find me the tiniest spaces to shoot in. So looking for something smallish, But weight not really an issue. Also i am always on low budget indie shoots and im always hard pressed for lighting variety. And directors always want "natural light" (Ugh) so i would like something fast if possible. Not too worried about switching lenses since im very used to it with my contax lenses.

So the new super speed cp2's or RPP. Superspeeds i think may be slightly out of my budget. hmmmm. Will the RPP cover 6k? Right now im on scarlet, and if i upgrade to dragon, chances of me shooting 6k 24fps is probably not likely. Most likely would only need to cover 5k.

thanks

 

[Matt Ryan]

Thanks guys. I actually just bought an older angie 20-120 f2.6 which is amazing. but its just too big for my style shooting. Most of the time i get thrown into projects and they always happen to find me the tiniest spaces to shoot in. So looking for something smallish, But weight not really an issue. Also i am always on low budget indie shoots and im always hard pressed for lighting variety. And directors always want "natural light" (Ugh) so i would like something fast if possible. Not too worried about switching lenses since im very used to it with my contax lenses.

So the new super speed cp2's or RPP. Superspeeds i think may be slightly out of my budget. hmmmm. Will the RPP cover 6k? Right now im on scarlet, and if i upgrade to dragon, chances of me shooting 6k 24fps is probably not likely. Most likely would only need to cover 5k.

thanks

RPP's and all cine lenses will not cover 6k. CP.2's are the only ones that will cover 6k but thats because they are cinevised still lenses and cover Full Frame.

 

[Clint Lealos]

RPP's and all cine lenses will not cover 6k. CP.2's are the only ones that will cover 6k but thats because they are cinevised still lenses and cover Full Frame.

Canon K35s (with exception of the 18mm) will cover 6k, and I'm wondering if the new Panchros might as well? I remember someone from Red saying that Dragon's 5K will be slightly smaller than MX 5K and Dragon's 6K will be slightly bigger than MX 5K. Do I have that wrong? Do we even know exactly how big Dragon 6K is going to be? Thanks.

 

[Matt Ryan]

Canon K35s (with exception of the 18mm) will cover 6k, and I'm wondering if the new Panchros might as well? I remember someone from Red saying that Dragon's 5K will be slightly smaller than MX 5K and Dragon's 6K will be slightly bigger than MX 5K. Do I have that wrong? Do we even know exactly how big Dragon 6K is going to be? Thanks.

Yeah K35's cover as well, I was just mentioning the lenses he's deciding from. Dimensions were announced in a thread somewhere. Jim said that you'd have to go down to 5K to not vignette with cine lenses. 5K on the Dragon is slightly smaller than it is now which means most cine glass should cover completely without vignetting. I'll look for the post on the size.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Canon K35s (with exception of the 18mm) will cover 6k, and I'm wondering if the new Panchros might as well? I remember someone from Red saying that Dragon's 5K will be slightly smaller than MX 5K and Dragon's 6K will be slightly bigger than MX 5K. Do I have that wrong? Do we even know exactly how big Dragon 6K is going to be? Thanks.

Dragon is supposed to have a 1.2 crop factor at 6k, as opposed to 1.3 the Epic currently has at 5k.

This puts a premium on FULL FRAME glass.

Domenic, I would suggest you get the ALL STAR MOUNT, so you can SWITCH between your CONTAX GLASS and your new PL glass purchases. Super Speeds and Contax primes will match almost IDENTICALLY, as they were made by Zeiss at the same time, and share very similar coatings. In fact, there are a lot of rumors that the Contax 35, 50 and 85 are BASED on Super Speed designs.

If you got yourself a Super Speed 18mm, that would match perfectly with a Contax 28 f2, 35 1.4, 50 1.4 and 85 1.4 and basically give you a set that is F2 or faster. If you cinemod your Contax primes, the mechanics won't be that for off a Super Speed (which are so small and similar anyway). At that point the biggest difference will be the super accurate focus marks on the Super Speed 18mm, but that's about it. To be honest.

My 2 cents.

 

[Matt Ryan]

Here's jim's post on Sensor size of Dragon:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77169-Dragon&p=986881&viewfull=1#post986881
"Sensor size is 30x15.8mm. Pixel size is 5 micron.

Jim"

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77169-Dragon&p=986818&viewfull=1#post986818
"The Dragon sensor is slightly larger than the Mysterium-X sensor and the pixel size is slightly smaller. The pixel design and sensor design makes all the difference in the world.

Most all of your current lenses will work.

Jim"


http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77169-Dragon&p=986920&viewfull=1#post986920
"The good news is that if you have a lens with limited coverage... you just might be limited to 5.5K...

Jim"

The new Panchro's are 33.54mm diameter, so they should cover as well. I'm not a fan of primes that are that slow and are the price they are.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Here's jim's post on Sensor size of Dragon:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77169-Dragon&p=986881&viewfull=1#post986881
"Sensor size is 30x15.8mm. Pixel size is 5 micron.

Jim"

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77169-Dragon&p=986818&viewfull=1#post986818
"The Dragon sensor is slightly larger than the Mysterium-X sensor and the pixel size is slightly smaller. The pixel design and sensor design makes all the difference in the world.

Most all of your current lenses will work.

Jim"


http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77169-Dragon&p=986920&viewfull=1#post986920
"The good news is that if you have a lens with limited coverage... you just might be limited to 5.5K...

Jim"

The new Panchro's are 33.54mm diameter, so they should cover as well.

Ok cool, so 5K becomes the new 4k. Makes sense.

But...I do remember hearing...that at 6K the Dragon FOV is a bit wider than than what the Epic sees now at 5K....so I assume that means the new sensor has a slightly larger "image circle". I guess it won't affect lenses that much, it makes sense. As obv S35 lenses will cover 5K fine on Dragon, and Full Frame lenses will cover 6K lenses fine. Its only those "in-between" lenses that were designed to cover the current Epic's image circle that may perhaps get affected if they don't cover the larger Dragon image circle as well. But, I presume, they were probably designed with some "room to spare", so they probably cover Dragon fine, like the new Panchro's.

But thanks for clarifying and being more specific. You were right todo so. thx

 

[Matt Ryan]

Ok cool, so 5K becomes the new 4k. Makes sense.

But...I do remember hearing...that at 6K the Dragon FOV is a bit wider than than what the Epic sees now at 5K....so I assume that means the new sensor has a slightly larger "image circle". I guess it won't affect lenses that much, it makes sense. As obv S35 lenses will cover 5K fine on Dragon, and Full Frame lenses will cover 6K lenses fine. Its only those "in-between" lenses that were designed to cover the current Epic's image circle that may perhaps get affected if they don't cover the larger Dragon image circle as well. But, I presume, they were probably designed with some "room to spare", so they probably cover Dragon fine, like the new Panchro's.

But thanks for clarifying and being more specific. You were right todo so. thx

Yeah I remember hearing FOV is slightly wider with Dragon as well. Just couldn't find the post. I have a feeling most lenses will cover up to 6KFF and then just slightly vignette similar to the current sensor. I don't think it will be that bad, hopefully. It's frustrating that sensor sizes keep increasing but lens options to cover these larger and larger sensors is almost nonexistent (in terms of cine lenses).

 

[Nick Morrison]

Yeah I remember hearing FOV is slightly wider with Dragon as well. Just couldn't find the post. I have a feeling most lenses will cover up to 6KFF and then just slightly vignette similar to the current sensor. I don't think it will be that bad, hopefully. It's frustrating that sensor sizes keep increasing but lens options to cover these larger and larger sensors is almost nonexistent (in terms of cine lenses).

Yeah but you quoted Jim as saying we just shoot at 5.5k. Maybe that becomes a new option? You can shoot 6K, 5.5k, and 5K...for this very reason? If you see a bit of vignetting at 6k, and don't want to crop it out in post, you scale down to 5.5k? Was I right to interpret Jim that way? I think so right?

Maybe that's how they are building this possible lens vignetting into their workflow, and giving us a way out on set if it becomes a client problem (with the 5.5k setting, etc).

 

[Matt Ryan]

Yeah but you quoted Jim as saying we just shoot at 5.5k. Maybe that becomes a new option? You can shoot 6K, 5.5k, and 5K...for this very reason? If you see a bit of vignetting at 6k, and don't want to crop it out in post, you scale down to 5.5k? Was I right to interpret Jim that way? I think so right?

Maybe that's how they are building this possible lens vignetting into their workflow, and giving us a way out on set if it becomes a client problem (with the 5.5k setting, etc).

Yeah that makes sense, I'd just rather have a s35 size 6k sensor so it wasn't an issue of windowing down to 5.5k. I'll still shoot it, but it would be nice to have full 6K with S35 lenses.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Yeah that makes sense, I'd just rather have a s35 size 6k sensor so it wasn't an issue of windowing down to 5.5k. I'll still shoot it, but it would be nice to have full 6K with S35 lenses.

Haha, yeah, that's probably the NEXT sensor AFTER Dragon...that's 8K (I'm already having fun trying to think of what they'll name it...COLOSSUS??)

 

[Domenic Barbero]

lol. Man this lens decision is almost as hard as buying a new car. maybe even harder

 

[Matt Ryan]

Haha, yeah, that's probably the NEXT sensor AFTER Dragon...that's 8K (I'm already having fun trying to think of what they'll name it...COLOSSUS??)

hahaha I hope we get an 8K+ 4:3 sensor for Anamorphic with a windowed 8K s35 option. Now that would be awesome. What an amazing size for 4K delivery.

 

[Matt Ryan]

lol. Man this lens decision is almost as hard as buying a new car. maybe even harder

yeah it is very tough lol.

 

[Domenic Barbero]

So ive been looking at the Zeiss cp2 superspeeds. They are looking pretty awesome. Im now kind of torn. The zeiss are fast and have interchangeable mounts and cover full frame and dont have outrageous flaring like the RPP. what would be the best reason to go RPP over the new superspeed cp2?