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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

In a bit of a dilemma !!!!

S

Steve Weiser

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Hello Reduser...

I wonder if anyone can shed any light on this ....... I have a shoot tomorrow , shooting on the Dragon and a set of cp2's. Originally we were shooting in 4k for an online content testimonial .(Shooting in 4k really just for future proofing).
Okay and now for the dilemma .....

They have just announced that they no longer want it in 4K, but 1920 x 1080 instead. Unfortunately I don't have a DIT so transcoding the R3D's into 1920x1080 is not going to happen (as I'm only going to use Shotput Pro) and I really don't want to shoot 1920 x 1080 on a Dragon!!

So, if I was to shoot on the Dragon in 4K and then put an ATMOS recorder out of the SDI of the Dragon and record 422HQ Prores 10 bit in Redlog film, I would assume this would be a better option for them than perhaps shooting HD 1920 x 1080 on my PMWF3 with the same Atmos recorder in SLog. I would assume the debayered image from 4K to 1920x1080 out the SDI would be a much better option as I would be using more of the "juiciness" of the Dragon sensor.

Do you think that 422 10bit Prores in Redlog film would work from the Dragon better than the F3 set up?

I'd be grateful for any advice...
Cheers
 
I´d say just shot at least 5K, better 6K. R3Ds are easily edited in Premiere, than export in lower resolution.
 
Hi Ulf

Thanks for your reply ..... Yes, I said this to the editor but his answer was that their edit facility cannot handle anything bigger than 2K!!!!!!! (I'm bemused by this)
They are just adamant that all they want is HD from the camera!!! in Log .....!!
 
Hi Patrick
You're right I really don't want to be using an wide angle for a long lens shot!!!
 
Unless they want dailies, or your computer is a piece. Do you even need a DIT to just transcode?, depending on the length of footage do it yourself, and bill the producer a DIT half day rate. In some cases they are ok with post production receiving it the next day depending on turn around time, and who the client is. Again if they wont get you a DIT I am guessing its probably a smaller production/budget and more likely ok with a next day delivery and not demanding dailies.
 
Hi Steve

I'd shoot 5k as this will give you a better SDI output,then record red log on the Atomos, the only downside is the camera LCD Display will be in Log unless you are applying a LUT on an external monitor. We simply set up a hot key so we can choice the Log And Gamma setup at the touch of a button.

This way you can have a choice, it's not a big deal to output 422HQ Log files from the r3d files via Redcine-X. I imagine this will work better then the F3 as you should have more DR.

Just be be aware if you're doing high frame rates the SDI is limited to 30fps Max, so it will default to your project base rate.

Good luck!

PS: Unless going for very high frame rates, we seldom shoot under 5K.
 
Their delivery format is not the same as the acquisition format. Doesn't matter what they want as their finished resolution, the shooting resolution is still gonna be 4-6K because the final downscale is what's going to produce a perfect HD resolution. If they for any reason can't work with R3Ds or don't have time to transcode it all to ProRes 4444 1080p, then... don't shoot Dragon. Or better yet, shoot with the Red Weapon since it can do 1080p ProRes. Pulling a SDI out of the camera is not going to be the best image in the end, whatever external recording gear you have.
If there's gonna be any type of grading you have to stay in 4444 or RAW mode, otherwise you loose the information needed to pull a good grade from LOG footage.

So my tip is; listen to their request and then... trash that request and shoot 4K as you would have from the beginning. Then transcode yourself with Redcine to ProRes 4444 HD or just give them the 4K files. The acquisition has nothing to do with the delivery except for improving the delivery quality.
 
Hey Adrian

Thanks fella for the advice - I agree with you ... I have a flanders C171 and have the log to gamma4 LUT saved onto the presets so should be good for that.

No off speed stuff, so that shouldn't be a problem .... and yes much more dynamic range shooting with the dragon than the F3.

I will actually give them the 5k r3d rushes as well as the 422 from the atomos.....

Again thanks for help

cheers
 
Hey Christoffer

Thanks for the message . Im afraid that my little mac book pro will die having to transcode the rushes for them which is part of the reason for shooting with the separate recorder, and at this late stage of the game things could get messy !!!!

So I know this is not ideal but under the circumstances that there is no way of shooting with a weapon now for tomorrow . Do you think that shooting on the dragon in 5k - redlogfilm - onto atomos blade prores 422 10bit . will be better than shooting Sony F3 - slog - atomos blade 422 10bit ? bearing in mind that its only for online content and they will probaly only be using the rushes from the atomos?

cheers
 
Sometimes the easiest answer is the simplest. Shoot on the F3. The client wants HD, they don't want to future proof. Give them what they want as qucikly as possible because there should be no excuses for a quick HD delivery.
 
Thanks Ash...... thinking about it more - its like using an elephant to crush a walnut - when a hammer will do !!!!!
 
There should be absolutely no problems shooting from the Dragon into an Atomos recorder. Done it several times with clients with the same issues. And you have the R3D's as a back up. I would go that route and not even give it a 2nd thought...
 
Christoffer Glans said:
So my tip is; listen to their request and then... trash that request and shoot 4K as you would have from the beginning. Then transcode yourself with Redcine to ProRes 4444 HD or just give them the 4K files. The acquisition has nothing to do with the delivery except for improving the delivery quality.
Click to expand...
I agree 100% with Christoffer. The client should've had this discussion with you a week before the shoot, not during the shoot. And I would find a way to charge for this change of plans if you can.
 
If you don't do advanced Dragon debayer, just leave the macbook pro (i have a retina from 2012 and it does a fine job) doing the transcode overnight to 1920x1080. Should be completed in the morning. We did this with a terabyte of footage.
 
Ash Worth said:
Sometimes the easiest answer is the simplest. Shoot on the F3. The client wants HD, they don't want to future proof. Give them what they want as qucikly as possible because there should be no excuses for a quick HD delivery.
Click to expand...

Yes, this. You choose the camera for the job. Dragon gives you phenomenal 1080p quality, probably the best 1080p resolution in the world. BUT if the production schedule and post production is fast and they need to move more quickly and you don't have a computer that could transcode things fast, then Dragon isn't the camera for the job. There are a number of other cameras better fot the job. Rent an Alexa, that would perfectly fit the needs for this..


Sergio Perez said:
If you don't do advanced Dragon debayer, just leave the macbook pro (i have a retina from 2012 and it does a fine job) doing the transcode overnight to 1920x1080. Should be completed in the morning. We did this with a terabyte of footage.
Click to expand...

Advanced debayer is rarely used even on better systems, it's mostly used for stills. I also have a Retina from late 2013 and it can render R3D no problem, it just takes time. Steve, if you have time to transcode, then you can do it on the mac you already have. If you shoot 4K on the Dragon you will also decrease the transcode time. I promise you it will work, it's just that you have to be patient with the transcode. Also, be sure that you render out with a neutral white balance that is the same for every scene, that way you don't have to work your ass off in the grade later on. Also render out to ProRes 4444 and be sure it's RedlogFilm.
 
Owen Rennie said:
They don't deserve a Dragon!
Click to expand...

I always build this in the workflow with my Scarlet.

Some of my shoots are not for future-proof but just to get err done.

So I explain that it wont be delivered overnight.

So far I havent lost anyone on this workflow.
 
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