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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

IMS news please

Jarred Land said:
Dont worry.. we have been very clear with P+S that their mount voids the warranty.. nothing new here. For them to tell their customers anything different is none of our business, those customers can just address the liability issues up with them.

I dont understand (again) why its so hard for people to understand that when you take apart the camera, the warranty is void. its pretty much the same with every single other piece of electronics ever made..
Click to expand...

Thanks Jarred,

that's was clear for me from the beginning of my idea about IMS for RED.

I've got it (IMS), took a part of the camera (RED PL mount) and now my RED warranty is void.


One more very important thing about IMS is usability - wise mount solution.

That's what people are asking for when they think about IMS here at the forum.


At the end one more question:

Is RED also thinking about a sort of its own design that is a bit the same

or similar like an IMS or stays with a standard PL mount only for the future cameras?
 
@Jarred
Thats not the point.
You know this. The point is we lost the trade in option. Thats not told before.
There are hundrets of pepole out will face the question of swapping mounts.
From my chair IMS is the only choice at the moment
You know its more than the simple question of void warrenty.

People ask you to clearify, I understand you refuse.
You are from RED you running the pool and its your forum and your or Jims company. So you can do what you want, even simple say "Thats my last words basta."
For me its a style of bad communication, but pls dont ask me to think that this is customer friedly.
I simple give it up to get a claer word. You say " end of the story" I agree
 
PeterM said:
@Jarred
Thats not the point.
You know this. The point is we lost the trade in option. Thats not told before.
There are hundrets of pepole out will face the question of swapping mounts.
From my chair IMS is the only choice at the moment
You know its more than the simple question of void warrenty.

People ask you to clearify, I understand you refuse.
You are from RED you running the pool and its your forum and your or Jims company. So you can do what you want, even simple say "Thats my last words basta."
For me its a style of bad communication, but pls dont ask me to think that this is customer friedly.
I simple give it up to get a claer word. You say " end of the story" I agree
Click to expand...


While this is hard to read, I do understand it enough to disagree. YOU may want it to be more complicate because, quite simply, you want RED to cover the camera, AND you want your IMS mount. Red's response: "No".

Look at how many damages sensor filters and stripped screws there have been from the Nikon mount alone.

I understand RED's position on this, and I am betting you do to, you just don't like the answer.

BTW: If it's that important, the just get it. Be careful, don' t break the camera and all will be well. if you do break it, then pay RED to fix it. They are not saying they will not service it, they are just saying they will not do it for free.

Jay
 
Jarred,
we know now exactly where we stand although it's not what most people wanted to hear.
For me it's time to move on and look at other solutions.
I don't like the idea of constantly changing mounts on the Red body between Nikon,Canon,PL,that seems to me to be a recipe for disaster.
I think the most versatile mount is probably a Canon,there are very few still lenses that can't be adapted for this.
Adaptors are available for Nikon,Contax,Leica R,as well as most medium format lenses including Hasselblad.
Its unfortunate that Leica M lenses can't be used on the Red,because of the very short FFD it requires the removal of the back focus on the Red PL mount,which is precisely what screws the warranty.
I know its not the best solution and there certainly are issues with using these lens adaptors with follow focus units,but that can be overcome with high quality adaptors properly fitted to the lens.
Although it's not a very elegant solution,it's one which I can probably live with until something better comes along.
Novoflex make excellent quality adaptors http://www.novoflex.de
and these are worth looking at if you require shift/tilt http://www.mirex-adapter.de
Just my last two pence worth.
Tom.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
If it's that important, the[n] just get it. Be careful, don' t break the camera and all will be well. if you do break it, then pay RED to fix it.
Click to expand...
I think that this was the general understanding before the latest developments. Now it turns out that installing the IMS will also shun you from all future hardware updates, and you will not be able to trade in your One for an Epic.

I think there are two groups of frustrated people. You may call them ungrateful, but you cannot really judge feelings. Feelings are never right or wrong, they just are.

There are those that already have a camera and might have installed the IMS. Now they are suddenly faced with the - hitherto unknown - fact that their One has lost a great deal of its re-sale value, and that they no longer qualify for an audio-board update.

Then there are those who are about to get their One, but cannot afford to buy (or are too remote to be able to rent) PL lenses. The only mount that is shipping and available today is the Nikon mount. But they might already have invested in some other glass in anticipation of either the Birger mount or the IMS (with some calculated risk as to paying possible damages - related or not - themselves). Nikon mount works only with Nikon lenses. So either they have to dish out an additional amount of money for some decent Nikon lenses - and thus not be able to use the benefits of the Birger mount when it does ship in a few week's time, or they have to wait to be able to use their sparkling One. I , personally, am not a patient person.

So, you can call them ungrateful, but it never hurts to try to understand someone else's position before dissing them.

Yes, RED has been clear about IMS voiding the warranty -- it took a while to get an idea as to why. But all the new drawbacks that come with installing the IMS do come as a nasty surprise for many.

I have fortunately not yet decided on the IMS, and guess that I'll have to go the interim Nikon mount solution, with some o.k.ish Nikkor zoom until Birger ships. Then, and only then, can I finally use my dear Zeiss Contax primes - alas with an adaptor, a solution that I am not too happy with, but that is just the way things are playing out now.

So, I am not ungrateful, just a bit disappointed.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
While this is hard to read, I do understand it enough to disagree. YOU may want it to be more complicate because, quite simply, you want RED to cover the camera, AND you want your IMS mount. Red's response: "No".

Look at how many damages sensor filters and stripped screws there have been from the Nikon mount alone.

I understand RED's position on this, and I am betting you do to, you just don't like the answer.

BTW: If it's that important, the just get it. Be careful, don' t break the camera and all will be well. if you do break it, then pay RED to fix it. They are not saying they will not service it, they are just saying they will not do it for free.


Jay
Click to expand...

In fact you address me. Thats not what I say.
I am NOT expecting RED cover a demage from IMS mount.
I do not belong the group of people want to have everything free.
But there is a big difference if I have to pay for a repair by loosing warrenty or if I loose the trade in program even I give back the RED one in a 1A condition with mounted original RED pl mount.
And its unlogic. I do not see any more risk to demage the sensor with IMS regarding in relation to birger or even to the RED Nikon mount.
I think most will agree that there is much more risk to demage the structur of the RED ONE body or the sensor if you swap several times between RED PL mount and RED Nikon mount.
Anyhow I must agree that Logic dont have to follow my oppinion.
Red is the landlord and I have to agree or not nothing more or less.
In my buisness (Panorma, dome 3D and exhibition film) I learned its better to speak out clear words than to swim in false hormony.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Sanjin,

Does IMS offer an installation service? This would be smart.

Jay
Click to expand...

Jay, yes.

They (P+S Technik) offer an installation service of IMS for RED.

I did IMS installation by myself but after I asked them (P+S) for a collimation (back focus) because I'm not good enough for that.
 
Matt..
get on autocad and draw something up..
lets get A interchangeable mount system on the map from red..
Its a gigantic pain in the ass to switch from nikon to PL.. especially if your using zeiss zf primes and a cooke zoom
 
Don't know if you can or not.
Thing is if I do it I don't want to lie about it.
Jarred I'm sure you do the best for RED.
But why don't you clearly say "don't buy IMS" ?
Maybe that could help making them adapt the design of the mount...
Loosing upgrade program was sad news for me.
Sorry if upset you. I'm just desperatly trying to get things better.

Again I LOVE RED.

Kind regards

Rami
 
Jarred Land said:
I dont understand (again) why its so hard for people to understand that when you take apart the camera, the warranty is void. its pretty much the same with every single other piece of electronics ever made..

end of story...
Click to expand...

Hi Jarred,

We do get it and fully respect your decision. The last thing I want is to frustrate you.

I guess what we've been holding onto is the notion that "this design of the IMS voids the warranty" suggesting that there may be an improved design that doesn't.

All we've been trying to do is get P&S to finish the job and redesign the mount to your satisfaction.

If there is NOTHING they can do to make it right, let us know and we'll move on immediately (I will anyway.) But if there is a glimmer of hope, we may be able to find a way to get P&S back in the game.

We are not asking you to reverse your decision, just if you believe there might be a design improvement that could potentially be approved.
 
Hi Jarred
If my words was to hash I apology. But from postings around different threads you may understand that people are confused, not by the warrenty issue but by update programm.
May I do a suggestion.

PLS create a sticky like
"If you change to an unproved mount you will lose"
1. warrenty
2. free upgrate
3. payed update
4 trade in to Epic
And pls make clear which solution we can use now. ( birger red nikon or what ever else) In that sticky you can update if some new mount find aproved by RED.
Pls dont let seach the people around the forum to dig out some fragmental statement from Redside.
Most people are not upset because of your decission. They are frustrated because after the dig out Red statements it seemed to turn worse for them.
Some of them even lose over the last days 17500 US$.

When it comes to me. I am in luck. I had time to cancel the IMS order, our German cam was used till now only with PL glass, and our Shanghai cams which hopefully comes during next weeks we know how to handle.

Again. Not all people read inside this forum, me eg I just find this thread by this weekend because during relax playing around reduser.
Normally I whould miss it and mount he IMS without knowing the total consequnces byside of the warrenty issue.
 
hey jarred and guys in general.. unfortunately i have no german for the rest of them..

isn't there any possibility for a new design and a new solution for all this?

IMS + RED = WARRANTY

would be good for the customers.
 
i could post.. RED + IMS = WARRANTY

i did not though.. seems obvious it's more an IMS issue than jarred's.. i can't be wrong here.
 
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