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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

IMS news please

The Third Man said:
Thanks Jarred for the reply.

At the end of the game I'm screwed anyway.

But if I would pay for the upgrade (RED) and of course for a full price of Epic how it is about my status in that way?
Click to expand...

If you pay full price for EPIC, you get a new Warranty so you are fine.
 
Jarred,

Thanks for giving us some facts,it would seem from what you've said that P&S
certainly jumped the gun and didn't communicate very well over this.
You said that some suggestions were made to P&S,I'm assuming that these were possible modifications that could have helped solve the problem.
Are you able to throw more light on this?.
Does Red think that the IMS could be modified in such a way to still retain the functionality of the interchangeable system,without having to invalidate the warranty,or is the whole principal not workable due to the amount of modification required.
I can see that the back focus part of the mount would have to be removed in order to provide the widely varying FFD's of the various lenses the system would have to support.
I can fully understand Red's reluctance to authorise this kind of modification,it could open up a whole new can of worms.
So we aren't really any further forward,perhaps P&S should go back to the drawing board.
With over 5000 Red's going to be out there before the end of the year,it would seem that it would be a commercial opportunity not to be missed.
Tom.
 
Thomas Dobbie said:
Jarred,

Does Red think that the IMS could be modified in such a way to still retain the functionality of the interchangeable system,without having to invalidate the warranty,or is the whole principal not workable due to the amount of modification required.
Click to expand...

That would be a great thing to know indeed...
 
Jarred - Frankly that seems pretty harsh. So, you are saying that if somebody was to install the IMS mount they would basically be out the $18,000 upgrade value of their RED ONE? Wow, does it really do THAT much damage? I have a hard time seeing how, since from the looks of it, it doesn't seem all that more complex than the Birger or Nikon mount swap.

I was thinking that since my warranty was about to expire anyway, I'd look into the IMS mount combined with the new EOS smart mount. In my mind this would be the ideal mount. But since I was also strongly considering an EPIC upgrade, I guess I'll scratch the whole mount upgrade. :(

I respect that RED can make the determination of what does and doesn't void the warranty, but I will say that these fuzzy answers (though the additional detail today was appreciated) as to why are frustrating, especially from a company that is usually so open about things like this. I personally would like to know exactly why the mount is so dangerous to the camera.
 
Jeremyn.. I understand how you can think it is harsh... But you must understand we just dont throw the RED ONE's we get back from the Trade In program into the fire pit, so we need cameras that have not be modified or compromised to come back, or else they have no value.

We have dished out thousands of dollars already to fix cameras that have gone south after people have changed or tried to change the mount to something else... I know it sounds like a simple upgrade, but there is alot of risk.

I don't understand however why you are upset we aren't being forthcoming... I have been pretty open about this, much more than most companies ever would be. In my opinion, we are being more than fair to even consider allowing 3rd party modifications to our camera while maintaining the warranty in the first place... If we just had a blanket no-go policy, it would be so much easier for us, and I wouldn't need to spend the time even talking about this... But, at RED we usually wear the customer hat, so we put forth the extra effort.
 
Okay, fair enough. And "harsh" is certainly a relative term in this case, it just seems harsh coming from you all, by most standards such a modification would be expected to cancel a warranty.

I do have a follow up question then; Which is more likely to do real damage to the camera, constant swapping between PL mount (for rentals) and an approved 3rd party mount (currently the Birger, though I'm more interested in the "new" EOS mount if it gets approval) vs one time swap of the IMS mount? To me it would seem like the IMS would be less damaging over time. But then again, I guess the point is moot if the IMS never gets formal approval.
 
Jarred Land said:
Thanks for the offer Sanjin, And by all means, anyone can install the mount if they choose.. We arn't trying to tell anyone what they can and cannot do... its your camera.

But when it comes time for the free warranty upgrades and time for the camera/sensor/EPIC/ etc upgrade program... camera's with voided warranties dont get those emails.
Click to expand...
I hope this doesn't include the Birger mount, correct?
 
Nope.. Birger mount originally had issues, but we worked with Eric and the Birger mount now is approved by RED. You obviously will need to send the camera back though with the RED PL mount attached, for both the Audio board upgrade plan and the Trade in Program.
 
the P+S Technik guys are a$$holes.. you should review your policy w/ sj though.. he has offered the best to this community.. he deserves an exemption..
 
Agreed... There are always exceptions, but for warranty issues those exceptions are going to be few and far between...
 
Jarred, I appreciate the input here. You've been fair and forthright in your explanations.

For now the Birger mount with select Canons will be great for anyone shooting Docs or INdie films destined to be arthouse classics, installations, reality TV or for the big screen.
I am sure the Red with a decent Canon with Birger could certainly capture better footage then "28 days later" or "Open Water"

https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/sales_o/news_info/ibc/114.html
"SECAUCUS, NJ (January 20, 2005) – Lonesome Jim, an elegiac feature from director Steve Buscemi, will debut in the Dramatic Competition at the the 2005 Sundance Film Festival this Saturday, Jan. 22. The 87-minute drama, starring Casey Affleck, Liv Tyler, Mary Kaye Place, Kevin Corrigan and Seymour Cassel, was shot with Panasonic AG-DVX100A mini-DV 3-CCD 24p camcorders."

Of course you just have to imagine what it looked like when it was first watch by the editor and not the 35mm print.:watsup:
 
Jarred, somewhere (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=295870&postcount=7) you said that some mounts would protect the warrenty, and others would be taken further and certified. Could you explain the difference between these two levels, and where a couple of popular options (Birger, ET hardware etc) fall on that spectrum?

Thank you in advance.
 
Long time I really like to as patient to all action from Red because you doing so grat job but now
I am simply .. not speak it out.
I would understand if the warenty will be void by mounting ims.
But till now RED is NOT ABLE OR WILLING to give us customer a clear answer what is so wrong with the IMS mount, we get some wischi waschi that it can serious demage the ONE. and it will void the warenty.
On Birger we got every week a clear statement like Birger destroy the electronics regarding to the I caple
In additional IMS may hurt the whole camerea that it will become wothless for trade in, so IMS currupts the trade in programm to EPIC.
Simple ask youself if a 100 times changed RED PL and BIRGER will do not more demage.
Congratulation. I cancel my order to IMS and add your dump Nikon mount inside my next order to use our Nikon Domelensand 160 deg lense byside PL mount glass.
Lets simple make it clear. Void the trade in 17500 $ is simple to BAN the IMS mount.
Its your your right to do so, but we customer most make our own decission if we think its very customer froendly.
Have a nice weekend.
 
jarred..

seems to me you have a lot of people unhappy nowadays..

just wondering.. why don't these people ask the same to the other side?.. or can't they speak other idiom than german?
 
I do.
But the version from P+S (IMS mount) is differnet from the version from RED.
And we ask RED for clearyfy, because we lose the RED warrenty and trade in programm and not some IMS warrenty
Im not really care who do the wrong comunication during proving process.
I simple like to hear a word from RED not that wishi washi.
If its not the cable so what may hurt the REDONE so hard that it become wothless for trade in.
Simple to make it clear. I can live with a void warrenty like I do sometimes with Sony products and their really bad customer service.
But loosing 18 grants by simple swapping a mount is hard, because we def want to trade in to EPIC when its on market and save to use.
Simple from the logic P+S could not answer that question.
To make it clear. I am not a fanboy from P+S, I simple need a solution for swapping mounts without 100 times screwing and unscrewing screws inside a RED alu body to swap from PL to Nikon.
Unfortunatly there is no physical solution to put a Nikon on an PL mount because of longer backfocus of Nikon vers PL.
 
filmmaker's gang said:
seems to me you have a lot of people unhappy nowadays..

just wondering.. why don't these people ask the same to the other side?.. or can't they speak other idiom than german?
Click to expand...

You're right!

I just sent P+S an email to tell them about the latest RED's policy about the camera/sensor/EPIC/ etc upgrade program broken when warranty is voided by their mount.

Let's wait and see I guess...
 
Dont worry.. we have been very clear with P+S that their mount voids the warranty.. nothing new here. For them to tell their customers anything different is none of our business, those customers can just address the liability issues up with them.

I dont understand (again) why its so hard for people to understand that when you take apart the camera, the warranty is void. its pretty much the same with every single other piece of electronics ever made..

end of story...
 
Jarred Land said:
I dont understand (again) why its so hard for people to understand that when you take apart the camera, the warranty is void. its pretty much the same with every single other piece of electronics ever made..

end of story...
Click to expand...

Jarred I fully understand that IMS mount voids RED's warranty (even if I still don't clearly understand why but maybe that's not my business...).
But I can live with that.

Now If I also loose the camera/sensor/EPIC/ etc upgrade program... It's another story!

Again I LOVE RED!
 
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